From the Splinter Cell Manual | Forums

[FrankieSatt]

Regarding Air Strikes, I just finished the originial Splinter Cell game, there were no air strikes. Not sure about Pandora Tomorow because I can't remember, I'll be playing it again this week and will check. Chaos Theory had one but it was part of the story line and made sense as to why they were needed, to destroy the plane and keep the secrets and technology from the enemy. There were no air stirkes in Conviction other than the helicopter missles to destroy the generators.

The problem I have with the air strikes in Blacklist is that I don't think Sam should be able to call them nor do I think Sam should need to call them. Once again, this game should be based on Stealth. In the situation we saw in the demo Sam should have been able to get around that truck by shooting the guy on the gun, creating a diversion, using a hand grenade to blow up the truck or the best solution would be not to even let the enemy know he was there, which should be the primary focus of every single mission.

The bottom line is that I don't want to be FORCED to use the air strike yet I'm sure that we will be and that will be extremely dissapointing.

[SolidSage]

The bottom line is, what if Sam makes a mistake when trying to stealth through? Is he just supposed to suck it up and get basted or would having an airstrike available be a good idea as a contingency plan for such an event?
Should players choose to use it pre-emptively, that's on them and the way they choose to play.

I believe we already read that the airstrikes are completely optional.

[FrankieSatt]

The bottom line is, what if Sam makes a mistake when trying to stealth through? Is he just supposed to suck it up and get basted or would having an airstrike available be a good idea as a contingency plan for such an event?
Should players choose to use it pre-emptively, that's on them and the way they choose to play.

I believe we already read that the airstrikes are completely optional.

Just like they said Mark and Execute was optional but then forced it on us by designing the levels with so many enemies at one time, which there would not have been if there had been stealth and they didn't know we were there.

Mark and Execute was forced on us and I have no doubt that the air strikes will also be forced on us in some way.

As far as what happens when Sam makes a mistake? He doesn't make them. The person using the controller makes them and then I reload and try again. Sam Fisher doesn't make mistakes because mistakes cost him his life, and in the previous games it actually did to where you had to reload and try again.

[SolidSage]

Just like they said Mark and Execute was optional but then forced it on us by designing the levels with so many enemies at one time, which there would not have been if there had been stealth and they didn't know we were there.

That sounds like you are saying they should make level's easier so we can have stealth handed to us on a plate, and don't need M&E. I didn't NEED M&E, but I did like using it. Stealth was hard to achieve in SCC (without M&E especially), I liked that challenge.

Mark and Execute was forced on us and I have no doubt that the air strikes will also be forced on us in some way.

You haven't played through Conviction without using M&E? What are you doing Frankie. There's so many ways to play SCC, not using M&E is really good and gets you closer to old school. 100% optional, Player choice.
I think Airstrikes will ALSO be 100% optional. Whether the levels are "designed" in a fashion that makes YOU 'need' the Airstrikes is on you brother. If they are optional, I will be able to make it through without them....cos I'm good at SC.

As far as what happens when Sam makes a mistake? He doesn't make them. The person using the controller makes them and then I reload and try again. Sam Fisher doesn't make mistakes because mistakes cost him his life, and in the previous games it actually did to where you had to reload and try again.

Er, Sam doesn't make mistakes? How's Lambert doing again? What about letting his Daughter get into a situation where she COULD have been killed? Sam makes lot's of mistakes, just like real World operatives. Fortunately he never made a mistake that cost his life, just little ones...that cost OTHER people their lives Sam is not infallible.

You're right that Players make mistakes also, and just like you said, in Legacy it led to reload/twiddle your thumbs while waiting, and try again. In SCC you had were held ACCOUNTABLE for your errors and had to try and dig yourself out of the hole, in spite of the fact the mission could be considered a failure because you were detected.
And THEN, after completing the mission in an unworthy SC fashion, you could go back later and try again. Continually challenging yourself to make a clean Splinter Cell like, perfect run, rather than continually retrying a check point until you memorize all the requirements and perform them. That was more akin to being a rat in a maze than simulating a realish stealth operator, ON SITE experience, IMO.

[FrankieSatt]

That sounds like you are saying they should make level's easier so we can have stealth handed to us on a plate, and don't need M&E. I didn't NEED M&E, but I did like using it. Stealth was hard to achieve in SCC (without M&E especially), I liked that challenge.




You haven't played through Conviction without using M&E? What are you doing Frankie. There's so many ways to play SCC, not using M&E is really good and gets you closer to old school. 100% optional, Player choice.
I think Airstrikes will ALSO be 100% optional. Whether the levels are "designed" in a fashion that makes YOU 'need' the Airstrikes is on you brother. If they are optional, I will be able to make it through without them....cos I'm good at SC.




Er, Sam doesn't make mistakes? How's Lambert doing again? What about letting his Daughter get into a situation where she COULD have been killed? Sam makes lot's of mistakes, just like real World operatives. Fortunately he never made a mistake that cost his life, just little ones...that cost OTHER people their lives Sam is not infallible.

You're right that Players make mistakes also, and just like you said, in Legacy it led to reload/twiddle your thumbs while waiting, and try again. In SCC you had were held ACCOUNTABLE for your errors and had to try and dig yourself out of the hole, in spite of the fact the mission could be considered a failure because you were detected.
And THEN, after completing the mission in an unworthy SC fashion, you could go back later and try again. Continually challenging yourself to make a clean Splinter Cell like, perfect run, rather than continually retrying a check point until you memorize all the requirements and perform them. That was more akin to being a rat in a maze than simulating a realish stealth operator, ON SITE experience, IMO.

I know of one mission in Conviction, in the beginning when Sarah was little, you were forced by the game to use Mark & Execute. There was no other way to complete that. As far as the rest, I would love to see a video of someone playing Conviction without using Mark and Execute. The game was designed with it in mind, why would they take the time to create a game mechanic and they give people the option to never use it? Why even create it to start with? The same with Air Strikes. Do you really think they will create that game mechanic, add in the option for Kinect users to call for it, and then give people the option to never use it? I highly doubt it.

[SolidSage]

I know of one mission in Conviction, in the beginning when Sarah was little, you were forced by the game to use Mark & Execute. There was no other way to complete that.

Well, you're absolutely correct about that. Frankie 1, Sage 0.

As far as the rest, I would love to see a video of someone playing Conviction without using Mark and Execute. The game was designed with it in mind, why would they take the time to create a game mechanic and they give people the option to never use it? Why even create it to start with?

I'm not making a video for you but I promise, I've played through Story on realistic without it and Infiltration without it. It's like the old stuff, sneaky sneaky, chokey chokey. The AI patterns do seem to have been designed so as to facilitate the use of M&E, but it's not something that stands out as odd when you don't use it. I've played through the first half of the co-op with Ethros, and that kid has it dialed in to perfection, stealthing through without shooting lights or killing anyone but the mandatories, even setting off EMP's with the guard STILL IN the office. Total kills for the first half of the game is around 6 guards. Once you get to the second half of of the 3rd stage (Yastreb..Mozdok?? I forget the name) it gets ugly, and killing is needed.
As far as "why create it?" Well, because it's a fun game play loop. There's a lot of mechanics that get built and don't need to be used much in games, but having them gives the Player ONE more variation to playing. I've used M&E for doing co-op campaign speed runs, almost like a precursor to killing in motion. You just run through the game as fast as possible, marking as many enemies on the fly as you can along with your partner, executing when necessary, and when it's not, just busting out of the level and leaving the AI all in a tizwaz. EMP the cameras and run by on St Pete, throw an EMP outside the bath house so you can shoot JUST the one dude, leaving the other 3 alive while you haul out of there. Best time was 1hr 12 minutes, I think it can be beaten

Frankie 1, Sage 1.

The same with Air Strikes. Do you really think they will create that game mechanic, add in the option for Kinect users to call for it, and then give people the option to never use it? I highly doubt it.

Yes, I do.

Final score to be determined when SCB releases and we see if Airstrikes are optional. Although I do think that a training section, like with little Sara shouldn't count, since they do need to educate us on use of the tool.

[coltcat]

I'm not making a video for you but I promise, I've played through Story on realistic without it and Infiltration without it. It's like the old stuff, sneaky sneaky, chokey chokey..

I believe you can, as you said that will still result in stealth kill certain amount(a lot) of peoples, surely more than SC1~4 must-kills combine,
we'll like really old stuff, like If I was in in hard situation, I'll punch or tazed some guys then moves on, theres no needs for my gun. no door or path that will only open if some ppl's dead (or KOed), maybe with some specific unlockable item to reward us for our good behavior.

[SolidSage]

I believe you can, as you said that will still result in stealth kill certain amount(a lot) of peoples, surely more than SC1~4 must-kills combine,
we'll like really old stuff, like If I was in in hard situation, I'll punch or tazed some guys then moves on, theres no needs for my gun. no door or path that will only open if some ppl's dead (or KOed), maybe with some specific unlockable item to reward us for our good behavior.

Definitely lots more required kills in SP SCC than Legacy, and even co-op probably has more in the second half of the game. But there are some good sections where you can Ghost pretty effectively.

[ExtraKrizpy]

The biggest issue with "stealth" in Conviction is the binary shadows. I recently repurchased the game and am playing through it again, and I am noticing how unrealistic the shadowplay is. I can crouch walk past enemies whether they are patroling or standing still as long as my screen is black and white.

I have been using M&E just because it's extremely fun to use, but completely ghosting is easy yet impossible at the same time. As I said above, the binary shadows make it easy, but the placement of the enemies (set up for M&E) make it almost impossible to ghost through without taking out a few enemies.

For example, in Kobins mansion, there is a staircase that is blocked by a piece of glass where you have to climb over a pipe to get around it. As soon as you cross the glass there is an option to perform a death from above kill on a guard standing directly below you. I was only able to get the prompt to drop without killing him once, and the rest of the times I figited back and forth across the pipe trying to find the sweet spot to drop safely until I gave up and killed him.

Hopefully in Blacklist the maps are a little less scripted for Killing in Motion, while still being a challenge to stealth through.

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

Pfffft. He cares SO much about his life that he took a job where he is constantly dropped behind enemy lines with zero back up, tasked with missions that require him to compete with small armies and aggresively prevent Global catastrophies.

You're argument suggests that Sam should never have been an SC in the first place and instead stayed at home baking cookies. Like sneaking around a heavily guarded enemy stronghold attempting to avoid contact is more realistic or less dangerous than killing that same enemy.

I mean Yeah, why would a guy that wants to live bother to use support air strikes to suppress his enemy (sarcasm).

There's a big difference between choosing to operate behind enemy lines and bum rushing 6 guards IN THE OPEN to engage them in open combat.

And dropping air strikes to engage THE ENEMY is great.
But when you want to stay alive, dropping them 20ft from where you're standing isn't exactly.....wise.

Sam drops in where the enemy doesn't expect him because he knows he's the best, but the whole point is that he does not want to die.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Engaging the enemy when you are one man is a sure fire way to reduce your life expectancy.

Just take John Clark in Clancy's Novel "Without Remorse" - the character everyone talks about Fisher being based on - when he takes on the final set of drug dealers he tells himself taking 3 of them on is TOO MANY - too risky!

I don't mind Sam engaging 5-6 guys when he has the area prepped, booby-trapped and he gets the drop on them. But running out in the open, shooting guys left and right, diving over car bonnets?

He might as well be dual-wielding UZIs at this stage IMHO.