An idea to make more unique and racel based skillstrees. | Forums

[Rahmal]

Now:
Every faction has access to five magic families out of seven (with the exception of Stronghold, which has access to six).
Every faction has access to air and earth magic.

It could be:
Remove the spell power skills (air magic 1,air magic2, earth magic 1 ...etc.) for each type of magic with the exception of Arcane Exaltation
(at this point it could be boosted a bit) plus one spell power skill per faction (with less power), with the exception of Stronghold.

Every faction has access to prime magic and one of each opposite element pair (air-earth; fire-water; light-darkness).
4 magic school out of seven (with the exception of Stronghold, which has access to the sixelemental school).

Arcane Exaltation 1
adds 2 magic power
Arcane Exaltation 2
adds 4 magic power
Arcane Exaltation 3
adds 6 magic power

other x magic (where x=air or earth or fire or water or light or darkness)

x magic 1
adds 2 magic power
x magic 2
adds 3 magic power
x magic 3
adds 4 magic power + grants some extra effect (post 5)

Example:
Haven :air, fire, light, pirme x=light
Inferno :earth, fire, darkness, prime x=fire
Necropolis :earth, water, darkness, prime x=darkness
Sanctuary :air, water, light, pirme x=water
Stronghold :air, earth, fire, water, light, darkness

[Rahmal]

I just think the skilltrees needs some tweak.
Anyone have any good ideas?

[BlueLore]

I think that some heroes should be able to learn exclusive skills,both magic and might-related ones.

For example necropolis heroes don't have any use for the leadership skills,so they should learn a skill that decreases the morale of the enemy,instead of raising the own.
Another thing would be the inferno heroes,who profit from the enemy having bad luck,so they could either learn a skill that decreases the luck of the enemy or their luck-skills don't only add luck but also decrease the luck of the enemy.
The heaven is a faction that relies on morale,so they could learn morale-linked skills,like healing units slightly whenever they get good morale or that they can attack at full power whenever they gain morale.

About your idea of cutting the number of magic schools down to 4:
Well it looks like a nice principle,but it would get problematic with expansion-factions.
For example the academy would have air,light and either fire or water as magic schools...which would be the same as sanctuary or if the dwarf-fortress returns(I doubt it returns,but we can't say for sure)it wouldn't have acess to water magic(since it is the officail fire faction),despite being heavily ice themed too.

I am also unsure if I understand your skills right.
Do you mean,that everyone (except for the orcs) can get the usual(but buffed)prime magic skills and the magic school-skills from another element depending on the faction?
If yes,I think that the x-magic-skills are way too underpowered,because they'd get overshadowed by the magic-attack-skills,who add magic power to all kinds of magic.The magic-skills should be stronger and maybe they could give addtional effects to some spells(for example fire magic 3 could give each damage-dealing fire spell an armor-decreasing effect,or dark magic 3 could give all negative-status-effect-spells an attack-reducing effect,etc.)

[Rahmal]

I am also unsure if I understand your skills right.
Do you mean,that everyone (except for the orcs) can get the usual(but buffed)prime magic skills and the magic school-skills from another element depending on the faction?
If yes,I think that the x-magic-skills are way too underpowered,because they'd get overshadowed by the magic-attack-skills,who add magic power to all kinds of magic.The magic-skills should be stronger and maybe they could give addtional effects to some spells(for example fire magic 3 could give each damage-dealing fire spell an armor-decreasing effect,or dark magic 3 could give all negative-status-effect-spells an attack-reducing effect,etc.)

Yes, you understand.
Everyone (except for the orcs) can get the usual prime magic skills and 3 magic school-skills from another element depending on the faction?
But only the Arcane Exaltation(prime magic spellpower ability) will be buffed, and not the whole prime magic.
You all rights the x-magic is an underpoweres skill, and the extra effect is a great idea.
I edited the fisrt post and changed the powers a bit:Arcane Exaltation I / II / III adds +2 / +4 / +6 spellpower
x-magic (the racial spellpower buff skill depending on the factions theme) I / II / III adds +2 / +3 / +4 spellpower and grants some extra effect as you wrote

About your idea of cutting the number of magic schools down to 4:
Well it looks like a nice principle,but it would get problematic with expansion-factions.
For example the academy would have air,light and either fire or water as magic schools...which would be the same as sanctuary or if the dwarf-fortress returns(I doubt it returns,but we can't say for sure)it wouldn't have acess to water magic(since it is the officail fire faction),despite being heavily ice themed too.

As you see, i do not changed the Stronghold (orcs have a shamanic attitude) so it is not a strickt system.

Academy as a magic based faction would has access to air, earth, fire, water, light, darkness and prime
and has access to 2 x-magic skill depending on his/her reputation abilities,
on the other hand Academy-magic heroes can learn maximum the level I might-abilities,
Academy-might heroes can learn maximum the level II might-abilities.

Dwarf-fortress is a bit tricky...
For example the Dwarfs would has access to earth, fire, water, and prime and has access to x-magic skill, where x is fire.

or the Dwarfs would has access to light, earth, fire, water and has access to 3 x-magic skills,
where x are fire, water and earth to compensate the shortage of prime magic.

Drow as an elemental-magic based faction would has access to darkness and prime
and has access to the first 2 magic schools depending on what spells was learned
and one x-magic skill in a simmilar way

e.g.: a drow learns Fire Shield and Ice Bolt
has access to fire, water, darkness and prime, and the fire-magic skill

an other drow learns Storm Arrows and Stone Skin
has access to air, earth, darkness and prime, and the air-magic skill

What do you think?

[Rahmal]

Air magic III extra effect:
with this skill Dazed Effect lasts for 4 turns. (instead 2)

Fire magic III extra effect:
Fire spells will ignite enemies, inflicting 33% of current spell damage to the target during the next round.

Earth magic III extra effect:
with this skill Rockwalls has +1 extra structural point
Erosion and Earthquake deals +1 extra srtuctural damage
Petrification lasts +1 extra turn

Water magic III extra effect:
with this skill all Chilled effects inflicted by friendly heroes and creatures have a 25% chance to be upgraded to the Frozen effect.

Light magic III extra effect:
with this skill Heal and Mass Heal spells resurrects target dead stack(s) too, but with 20% power of the normal power
(e.g. it resurrects a death stack with 200 hp instead of 1000 hp).
Resurrected creature cannot attack and cannot be attacked for 1 turn.

Dark magic III extra effect:
with this skill any Dark magic spell dispels one random positive effects from the target enemy stack.

[Rahmal]

I think that some heroes should be able to learn exclusive skills,both magic and might-related ones.

A bit balancing between Might and Magic classes:

I think the Realm is not really an Might group.
It could be a Neutral (nor might nor magic) group,
Enlightenment and Mentoring skills could be Neutral skills too.

Might or Magic Heroes can learn Neutral-abilities and Exclusive skills
level I abilities at their 1st experience level;
level II abilities – from 5th level;
level III abilities – from 15th level.

Might Heroes can learn might-abilities
level I abilities at their 1st experience level;
level II abilities – from 5th level;
level III abilities – from 15th level.
Might Heroes can learn magic-abilities
level I abilities at their 5th experience level;
level II abilities – from 10th level;

Magic Heroes can learn magic-abilities
level I abilities at their 1st experience level;
level II abilities – from 5th level;
level III abilities – from 15th level.
Magic Heroes can learn might-abilities
level I abilities at their 5th experience level;
level II abilities – from 10th level;

[Rahmal]

Hi mates, no one has any good idea?

I think, we could help the devs to improve the skillsystem.

[futatn_69]

I don't think they need to really change any of the skills they have now. If they added skills and in some cases cleaned up some of the skills for certain factions it would make all the difference. As of right now

Here are some examples:

***Paragon: (Not much needs done here except for the necropolis anti moral idea in place of leadership.

Tier 1-3 (Replaces Charismatic Leader)
Leader from Beyond- Necropolis only- Enemy units get -x Leadership during combat. (-1/-2/-3)

*Realms: (I've no Ideas for these, as they are my least favorite)

****Tactics: (There is really no good blood skills here as the siege master is all that benefits from it)

Tier 1
Pitched Battle- Blood- Place 1/2/3 traps that reduce creature movement by -2 anywhere that is one space away from a deployment zone. (This could be followed up with skills that make the traps have some other effects like damage, fire, what ever)

Tier 2 Duck and Cover Upgrade
Combat Barricade- Haven Tears- After units are deployed, place a barricade anywhere in your deployments zone that will provide cover. The barricade has 1/2/3 structure points and is 1x1.

Tier 2 Ambush Upgrade
No Surprises- Necropolis Blood- Enemey units recieve -2 Initiative during combat.

Tier 3 Tactics 2 Upgrade
Pre-emptive Strike-Sanctuary, Blood - The area the enemy can redeploy in is reduced by one, and Tactics 1 is cancelled out.



*** Warcries (This are needs some racial love)

Tier 1
Replaces Heroism (Also could have a second "mass" version)
Howl from Beyond- Necropolis Tears- Target unit get -13/-15/-17 moral and reduces might damage by 18%/20%/22% for 3 rounds. (Maybe it would be better in tears, also probably would replace heroism)

Tier 2 Flawless Assault Upgrade
Reckless Assault- Stronghold Blood- Units gain max damage and 20%/16%/12% reduced might defence for 1.5 turns. (Stronghold flawless assault upgrade, maybe a tier 3)

Tier 3
Retaliation Stike- Haven Blood- When selected unit is attacked hero will automatically strike attacking unit. This can trigger once per turn and lasts 2/3/4 turns.


***Warfare (Lacks a little in the Blood department)

Tier 1 (This could be the opposite of counter strike for blood)
Powerful Blows 1- Blood- Units have 4%/6%/8% chance to strike with a powerful blow that can not be retaliated against.
Tier 2
Powerful Blows 2- Blood- Melee attacks that can not be retaliated deal 1%/2%/3% more damage.
Tier 3
Powerful Blows 3- If the enemey unit is unable to retaliate from a melee attack they become dazed.

Tier 3
Excuciating Strike- Blood - There is a 15%/20%/25% chance that a heroes attack will deal double damage.



Tier 3
Lord of the Undead- Necropolis Blood- Heroes necromancy gauge fills up 5%/10%/15% faster in combat.



****Fire School
Tier 2 Fire Shield Upgrade
Hellfire- Inferno Tiers- When ever a unit you control is attacked there is a 15%/22%/29% chance that Fire Shield will be cast instantly on attacked unit. The spell goes on cooldown, and mana is taken away as normal.


Tier 3 Inner Fire 2 Upgrade
Hellswrath- Inferno Blood- When a melee unit you control attacks there is a 4%/8%/12% chance that Inner Fire 2 will be cast instantly. This spell goes on cooldown, and mana is taken away as normal.

**** Earth School

Tier 1
Stone Spikes- Blood- Stone Spikes deal 600/700/800 damage to target non-flying unit. Any unit damaged by this spell becomes daze. Cost 15 mana. (It's very impossible to want to go a blood, earth school specialization with out a tier one blood spell.)

Tier 2
Implosion - Stronghold Blood- Same stuff as the prime school version except it is earth magic. (Stronghold mages are pretty lame and need some kind of
advantage since in the long run they will not gain the prime magic SP bonus and will totally suck. This version would be earth so could be healed, but is
tier 2 and semi-powerful early)


**** Light School

Tier 1
Fist of Wrath- Blood- Fist of wrath deals 100/200/300 Light damage that ignores magic resistance. 20 mana (I'm being generic with the numbers here but this would be a powerful spell if it ignored resitance. Probably needs a low base damage with +level, and +stat modifiers.)

Tier 3 Sunburst upgrade
Banishing Light- Any summoned creature damaged by Sunburst is instantly destroyed. (An idea to make Sunburst better by giving the Light School a hard counter to summons)

*** Dark School

Tier 1
Aura of Fear- Tears- Friendly target can not be retaliated against for 1.5/2/3 turns unless attacked creature is immune to mind influencing spells. Cost 18
mana (I'm not sure how to calculate in a formula using +stats with this type of friendly buff, but it also could have a mass version that lasts a little less and costs more)

*** Water School

Tier 1
Water Walking- Sanctuary Neutral- Heroe is able to cross water as if on a boat for 2 turns. Cost 20 mana (This should replace the inherit bonus of sanctuary being able to cross water)

Tier 3
Shalassa's Blessing- Sanctuary Neutral- If you cast Mass Ice Armor, or Ice Armor during your first turn you may do another action. (Sanctuary tears is
powerful but these two spells are probably hardly ever used. They probably still wouldn't, but I thought this kind of effect would at least be worthy of Tier
3)


*** Air School (I'll have to storm some up)

[shop4A98B0C7F]

I have an idea for a primarly might tree. It would include modifications to all 7 of each faction's creatures and racial abilities. For faction unit modification, there would be one for blood tears and a neutral one. You'd only be able to pick up one upgrade per unit, and perhaps one per tier (core, elite, champion). You could only pick up blood if your blood and tears if your tears. Magic heroes would have access to the ones that modify magic units and possibly the racials..

Sisters/Vestals: [Blood] Allows your heal to target enemies other then undead and demons and boosts the damage (not healing) by 50%. [Neutral?] [Tears] gives you an extra charge and improves the heal by ~10%.
Sentinel/Praetoraen: [Blood] Increases the damage of shield bash, and shield bash also targets enemies in range who have been attacked by an allied unit. [Neutral?] [Tears] Your Praetorians when defending, defends those around him in addition to himself. He grants 20 might/magic defense split between targets he is guarding.
Crossbowman/Marksman: [Blood?] [Neutral?] [Tears?]

Maniac/Demented: [Blood] Attacking a unit without manic laugher grants an extra charge of manic laughter to the attacking Demented. [Neutral] Your movement is increased by 2 while you have a stack of manic laughter. [Tears] drains the damage of all units next you, rather then just your attack target. In addition, manic laughter is twice as effective against elite units. You never gain more then one charge of manic laughter per strike.
Succubus/Lilim: [Blood] Increases initiative and retaliations deal extra damage in fire. [Neutral] Seduce does not take up an action. [Tears] Seduce lasts longer, pleasure in pain/rapture in agony works against ranged attacks as well.
Hellhound/Cerberus: [Blood] The cerberus get a 4 stacked damage buff at the start of combat, each attack they make consumes a stack. [Neutral?] [Tears] The cerberus eats part of targets he gets the killing blow on, healing them for 20% of their current health. Consumes a charge of the ability, and starts out with 3. Killing a target while at max hp does not consume a charge.

Ghoul/Ravenous Ghoul: [Blood] Attacks reduce enemy might defense. [Neutral] Takes a turn to feast on an enemy corpse to heal. [Tears?]
Ghost/Spectre: [Blood] Enemies who die near the spectre give the spectre a charge of her spell, in addition Wail of the Netherworld can be placed on the ground instead of a target. When placed on the ground, instead of healing an ally, necromancy points are granted. [Neutral] Spectres grant higher necromancy points for damage they deal and take. [Tears] Spectres are incoporeal intill they move from their starting location, instead of just till they make their first action.
Skeleton/Skeletal Spearman: [Blood] Reduces initiative in exchange for extra damage. [Neutral] Attacking a target multiple times stacks the movement speed debuff up to three times. [Tears] Skeletons take 25% reduced damage from magical ranged attacks in addition to the 50% reduction to might ranged attacks.

Maulers/Crushers: [Blood] The enemy retaliation is delayed intill after the second strike of crushers. [Neutral] Taking damage grants one extra movement for the next turn, stacking up to 4 movement in a turn. [Tears?]
Harpies/Furies: [Blood] Attacking a unit places a debuff that prevents their next retaliation. [Neutral] The harpy can choose where it goes to after attacking for 50% of the movement, but can still choose to return to their original location. [Tears] Reduces damage taken by ranged units.
Goblins/Goblin Hunters: [Blood] Deals extra damage to units who have already taken their turn, excluding targets who use a defend action. [Neutral] Laying a trap does not consume a turn. [Tears?]

[futatn_69]

I like that concept of core upgrades shop. It would fit really well into the realm category as there isn't much in there, and the blood/tears upgrade could be a tier 2 upgrade for might and magic could both get it. First part of one of the cores could be a neutral upgrade and the second part would be a blood/or tears. If the blood and tears where combined it would only be one symbol in the skills list. Sadly this game hasn't even really been touched in the whole code department and would probably never be implemented. Make this game good LIMBIC!!!