Rifleman > Scout | Forums

[alxn]

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So the problem lies with the GL and its abuse. Its stupid how you can resupply yourself... I can understand bullets but explosives too?

EDIT: Not to mention that the smg's are highly effective up close, more so with piercing rounds.

I agree the ammo box shouldn't resupply anything but ammo, but this has been brought up since beta, and at this point I don't expect it to be changed.

Assault rifles also get AP rounds and are effective at all ranges.

I also prefer rifleman but, the OTR scanner is an incredible tool when working with a team. It doesn't just give intel assists, it lets your team know exactly where people are and to watch out in that area for flanks and such. It's also great for finding people who may be camping in the grass near an objective that you wouldn't normally see. The rifleman also doesn't have claymores, I get at least 10 kills every game with claymores alone while playing scout. It can shut down a flank very well if you know how to use them. Even if the person sees it and takes it out, you still hear them doing that.


As for camo, I agree that it's very easy to see, but it's hilarious how many people don't see you when you find a good spot.


The scout has the best frontal melee. The animation is very quick and doesn't spin your camera.

If you've got an enemy in your sights with the OTR scanner, shouldn't you just shoot them?

I agree that claymores are an excellent piece of equipment. I just think that lots of grenades outclasses two claymores.

I don't think I've ever been disoriented after meleeing as a rifleman or engineer.


Just to be clear, I didn't make this thread because I think scouts suck. I have a blast playing scout and do just fine by catering to the scout's strengths. I just think rifleman performs better, and does the job with less effort, in almost every role the scout is supposed to fulfill.

[B3ANTOWN B3A5T]

I outgun rifleman all the time with the P90. The assault rifles are great, but hardly impossible to beat with an SMG.

OTR scanner is amazing. I couldn't do without it. If you only get occasional Intel assists than you aren't scanning the battlefield enough. I get them all day long.

Saying stun mines are pretty good is the understatement of the year. They're one of, if not THE best piece of equipment in the game. You don't have to babysit them at all. I've run from half way across the map back to my mines with plenty of time for the hack. If you don't want to backtrack and have a squadmate in the area, just have them do the hacking.

You also forgot to mention EMP grenades, which can be a huge asset in a game focused on Intel. Since rifleman have frags and engineers have sensors, its logical a scout should carry EMPs. I destroy turrets and sensors all the time,and even prevent data hacks. I realize the rifleman can do this with frags, but you get 2 EMPs and they work through walls. I use them all the time to feel out enemy locations via hitmarkers.

It sounds like a big part of your arguement for the strength of the rifleman is the fact that the he can carry an UB nade launcher with basically unlimited ammo, which is what I think is the most broken part of the class. Let's face it this game would be better without the tubes.

I do however like to have rifleman on my team because I tend to burn up a lot of ammo with the P90.

[alxn]

I outgun rifleman all the time with the P90. The assault rifles are great, but hardly impossible to beat with an SMG.

OTR scanner is amazing. I couldn't do without it. If you only get occasional Intel assists than you aren't scanning the battlefield enough. I get them all day long.

Saying stun mines are pretty good is the understatement of the year. They're one of, if not THE best piece of equipment in the game. You don't have to babysit them at all. I've run from half way across the map back to my mines with plenty of time for the hack. If you don't want to backtrack and have a squadmate in the area, just have them do the hacking.

You also forgot to mention EMP grenades, which can be a huge asset in a game focused on Intel. Since rifleman have frags and engineers have sensors, its logical a scout should carry EMPs. I destroy turrets and sensors all the time,and even prevent data hacks. I realize the rifleman can do this with frags, but you get 2 EMPs and they work through walls. I use them all the time to feel out enemy locations via hitmarkers.

It sounds like a big part of your arguement for the strength of the rifleman is the fact that the he can carry an UB nade launcher with basically unlimited ammo, which is what I think is the most broken part of the class. Let's face it this game would be better without the tubes.

I do however like to have rifleman on my team because I tend to burn up a lot of ammo with the P90.

I totally agree that the game would be better without tubes. In fact, my ideal shooter wouldn't have any explosives at all. I also don't think the tubes are going anywhere. Again, my argument is not that scouts suck, it's that they have no role-specific advantage over rifleman. And Beantown, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you only play scout?

Edit: Also, any class can carry EMP's. It's just that scouts don't have a more appealing option, so they usually end up carrying them. I know I do on my scout.

[Charity Diary]

I totally agree that the game would be better without tubes. In fact, my ideal shooter wouldn't have any explosives at all. I also don't think the tubes are going anywhere. Again, my argument is not that scouts suck, it's that they have no role-specific advantage over rifleman. And Beantown, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you only play scout?

Edit: Also, any class can carry EMP's. It's just that scouts don't have a more appealing option, so they usually end up carrying them. I know I do on my scout.

Pretty much. And he only plays with a team who compliments his style.

So of course he's going to say that the Scout has value, because it does, for him.

[DannyStrong]

while everyone has the right to their opinion. I don't think you have a very informed one. Espeicalyl due to your comments on the thermal sight, stun mines, and active camo..

Thermal sight ->this actually can't see through smoke. you wouldn't use it in conjuction with smoke grenades like you would with the backscatter

stun mines -> this is the bread and butter equpment of the scout. If you haven't learned to use these to the fullest of their ability it sounds like you've been just playing the scout as if it were a rifleman. Of course the rifleman is better than the scout at being the rifleman role.

active camo -> I think iy could be buffed so that no sensors of any type can detect someone while camouflaged. But it's fine as is. The level of invisibility is also fine as is. You can't just walk out in the open and expect to go unseen like you can do in single player.. You still need to hide. It just helps you hide.

If you try to play the socut like a rifleman and just run in there and try to outgun the enemy, then you're not really playing as a socut. The scout is the person who gets behind enemy lines, takes out vital targets, secures objectives, gets data hacks, etc ,etc. If your interest is kills then try the rifleman.

[alxn]

while everyone has the right to their opinion. I don't think you have a very informed one. Espeicalyl due to your comments on the thermal sight, stun mines, and active camo..

Thermal sight ->this actually can't see through smoke. you wouldn't use it in conjuction with smoke grenades like you would with the backscatter

stun mines -> this is the bread and butter equpment of the scout. If you haven't learned to use these to the fullest of their ability it sounds like you've been just playing the scout as if it were a rifleman. Of course the rifleman is better than the scout at being the rifleman role.

active camo -> I think iy could be buffed so that no sensors of any type can detect someone while camouflaged. But it's fine as is. The level of invisibility is also fine as is. You can't just walk out in the open and expect to go unseen like you can do in single player.. You still need to hide. It just helps you hide.

If you try to play the socut like a rifleman and just run in there and try to outgun the enemy, then you're not really playing as a socut. The scout is the person who gets behind enemy lines, takes out vital targets, secures objectives, gets data hacks, etc ,etc. If your interest is kills then try the rifleman.

Not seeing through smoke with thermal was actually my experience as well, but I thought I was just doing something wrong. So thermal is even more useless than I thought. I'm not sure if you've read my other posts, but I've said repeatedly that stun mines are good equipment, just not as good as what rifleman gets. If the scout's camo is fine as is to you, great. To me, it's just a shiny suit that doesn't actually hide anything.

As I stated in my original post, I've played 50 levels of scout, and 50 levels of rifleman. My opinion can't get any more informed.

[L0CI75]

Unless I've mis-read the tone of people's posts, the players that prefer to play as a Rifleman believe that class is better, likewise wth the Scouts. So let's just leave it at that without calling for buffs of any kind. Everyone's happy as they are, wonderful, job done.

Ps I'll lone wolf my *** off as a Rifleman and usually get the better of anyone. Run into a lone Scout who knows the map and what he's doing and I'm in trouble. The end.

[alxn]

Unless I've mis-read the tone of people's posts, the players that prefer to play as a Rifleman believe that class is better, likewise wth the Scouts. So let's just leave it at that without calling for buffs of any kind. Everyone's happy as they are, wonderful, job done.

Ps I'll lone wolf my *** off as a Rifleman and usually get the better of anyone. Run into a lone Scout who knows the map and what he's doing and I'm in trouble. The end.

I'm easily bored, so I like to play all the classes. I've finished leveling my rifleman and scout, so now I'm leveling my engineer. The comparison I'm making is based on playing both classes through their full progressions. I'm curious to know how many of the people who think scout is fine as is have played a significant amount as a rifleman.

[Phoenixmgs]

I'm curious to know how many of the people who think scout is fine as is have played a significant amount as a rifleman.

I've played all 3 classes to level 50 and I think all the classes are balanced. I really think a rifleman should have to pick between a GL and ammo box at a decision point, and I also don't like that the engineer and scout get GLs as secondaries. I play classes based on the map; I play the scout on Underground, Sand Storm, Cargo, and Alpha; the rifleman on Market, Harbor, and RIg; the engineer on Mill, Pipeline, and Overpass.

Here's my kills and deaths as a scout and rifleman:

Scout: 3396 kills / 1744 = 1.95 KDR
Rifleman: 3220 kills / 1484 deaths = 2.17 KDR

I think that's pretty balanced as the rifleman is supposed to be the best at killing enemies. The scout is a very effective killing machine as well, you just can't engage in combat from any position like the rifleman. Stun mines are a real game changer in my opinion, as they can be both offensive and defensive; you place the stun mine ahead of the objective and it acts as basically another soldier as you only need it to take out that first rusher more often than not. I've capped objectives by myself by placing stun mines ahead of the objective and I've stunned 2 enemies several times as I've capped an objective. And, I haven't even gotten to the best pro of the stun mine, it stuns people and allows for much easier data hacks than any of the other classes. Yeah, you can still hack as the rifleman, but so many times I'll go after a lone wolf only to have teammates spawn on him just as I'm going for the stun and it messes it up everything. It's not that hard to check ahead of the stunned enemies for any back up. I use the stun gun mainly to chain data hacks by hunting down enemies while I can see them and knowing the chances of backup being close are slim to none. And, I use the stun gun to data hack someone I come up to by himself in cover. I really feel thinking stun first to data hack only gets you dead too much or hacked yourself (as someone stuns you performing a hack) when you could've of just killed the guy and held your position. Even though people probably average more points per match trying for data hacks all match, I feel people going around just trying to hack are actually a detriment to their team.

The OTR scanner is a great tool and it doesn't give your position away or rob you of kills. The OTR scanner only kicks in when you ADS and the guy is going to be dead before he even starts trying to escape at the firing speed the SMGs have. Just being able to light up the enemies for a few seconds is huge especially when you call out their positions over the mic at the same; "There's a couple enemies going toward the right alleyway" and then your teammate look in that direction and visually see the enemy for a second or two, it's just a huge help being able to see exactly where they are. Even if your teammates don't end up killing them when they are lit up, you still greatly assisted in that kill.

EMP nades are extremely useful. Yeah, the scouts do kind of use them because they don't have anything better like the engineer and rifleman but I don't have a problem with that because they can save your team just as much as the sensor nades and frags. If I hear "Sentry deployed," "Stun mine planted," "Sensor out," etc., I throw out an EMP right away and take whatever out almost instantly. How many kills would that sentry turret have gotten? That stun mine could've lead to a data hack. If the scout had frags for whatever reason, most players would carry them and then nobody on the team would really be able to destroy enemy equipment. Just EMPing enemies can be a great help as well especially when data hacked.

[shobhit7777777]

I'll have to disagree OP

It's unfair to compare the classes because they are built for different purposes altogether.

Scout =/= Rifleman would be a fairer statement

The Scout's role is constant intel gathering, infiltration and enemy harassment.

In a direct comparison the Scout would lose simlpy because the Rifleman has more kill power but if you break them down into their roles...than the Scout is an extremely valuable asset to the team.

OTR: Not only does it provide Level 2 intel on enemies for you WHOLE team...but it also slows down the enemy as many of them just get into cover trying to avoid getting shot or just ducking. Add to that their squadmates can't spawn on them..and you have a very potent equipment.
1. Your team knows which class of enemy is going exactly where and how many are accompanying that class
2. Enemy spends valuable time trying to defeat your detection while in cover..or trying to shoot it out with you
3. Enemy squadmates can't spawn on their detected teammates.

The Rifleman has no such intel capability. The OTR is a team equipment and does more than just kill people.

Camo: The camo may not be perfect but it certainly is effective. I have hidden and avoided detections thanks to the camo a VERY close ranges...people have run by me, within 2 feet, oblivious to my presence. A guy looking for a Scout..knowing where to look may find you...but a rifleman focussing ahead towards where he is sprinting will sprint past a camouflaged Scout directly infront of him.
If if the scout is detected..the Scout has enough time to bury half a clip of lead into the rifleman or stun-hack him. Element of surprise that the cloak provides is crucial
Augment the camo and you have an excellent infilitration unit
Here's a vid demonstrating such:


Thermal: Slap on an OTR and you have a lethal combo...pop smoke...go to thermal..OTR folks and your team can shoot people while remaining behind the smoke. Excellent way to draw enemies out and detect them.

Mines: the Claymore may only net you two kills but those two kills can have an adverse effect on the map. Unlike a UBGL you don't need LOS, you can plant mines anywhere and no need to babysit them, they make the enemy more cautions, they can lock down flanks and potential trappers, they are versatile weapons and can be used offensively OR defensively. The mines are more versatile

The Stun mines, while do require a bit of babysitting, can reap in extremely beneficial rewards......Hacks. The Scouts primary role is that of an intel gatherer...hacking is their bread and butter...so a Scout in a good ambush zone with stun mines...hacking enemy troops is far more valuable than a lone SMG Scout rushing the objective like the Rifleman.
heck...plant a Stun mine and you do more damage stunning an enemy than killing him...How?

1. A stun lasts longer than the respawn time
2. you get more points than a simple kill
3. the stunned guy cannot be spawned upon
4. one man down and another out of the fight for a few precious seconds to revive him
5. You get instant positional intel on your stun...and judging by the time it takes for the victim to be "revived" you can easily determine that their are 2, possibly more enemy troops there..and you can plan accordingly


The Scout is designed and equipped to be an infiltration/spying machine. The current equipment set we have is perfect IMHO. I'll put forth an example of how a Scout can be devastating if used right:

I was playing an SMG Scout on Mill (Conflict - Bodark). Within the first 5 minutes I was able to data hack 1 rifleman in the Mill building. Consequentially my team was able to push the enemy team back. and cap the objective. Later on I was able to inflitrate their side of the bridge....found a nice and cozy spot, camo'd up and proceeded to OTR each and every single player. My team set up on the left and right flank...I was in the middle. We locked that area down. Folks would rush out...get detected..my team would know who is going where...and ambush them accordingly. Several times enemy soldiers would run by me....within touching distance. I stayed put..scanning people with the OTR. I also acted like a mobile spawn point...so my teammates could deploy real quick and set up their ambush zones.

I have employed similar tactics with great success in other maps. Intel is key. IF I were not a Scout...without stun mines, the OTR, the camo etc. My team wouldn't have been able to dominate the opposing team.

The Rifleman in such a situation would have been able to get a few kills..then hunted down and killed..with no real value added to the team as he couldn't share intel or be an advanced spawn point for a prolonged period.

It is not possible to compare the two classes directly.