Next-Gen Driver Wishlist Pt2 | Forums

[PeaceMaker_101]

I know how we have all been hoping to have a topic where Reflections can take most of our feedback about what we'd like to see in the next Driver game, so I thought that I should make a new thread about it.

A reminder of the ideas that I posted a couple months ago in an old thread:

- Shift has been enhanced more than ever before: Tanner can now occupy virtually any type of vehicle you can imagine. Use cars, boats, motorbikes, planes, helicopters, tanks, etc.

-On foot and guns are back! Use shift to possess any pedestrian on the streets and take control of them. Later, you'll find that a lot of interesting story and activities around the city are possible with on foot and shift. Disguise yourself to gather intel or sneak stealthily into certain buildings or other restricted/off-limits places in the game. Use it to prevent yourself from getting completely killed off in the game (though it might kind of make the game a little too easy this way).

- a pretty good variety of difficulty settings help you customize your game to your own liking (i.e. how enemies react, permadeath or Game Over after wrecking your vehicle or dieing in one person's body, etc.)

- With the newly expanded shift, you can also do many crazy, over-the-top moves in the on foot sections of the game, like filling up your ability bar to perform limited bullet-time kills (where you can see your enemy die like in Max Payne 3 and where you can take control of the bullet or rocket to drive it into your enemy), etc. The possibilities seem like they're endless.

- a story that's more comic book-like is now more possible and may seem like an excellent idea, now that Tanner can use shift and his abilities in so many different ways. Take down Jericho and many other baddies in this game. Expect tons of wrecked vehicles, explosions, bullets flying everywhere, etc. Totally explosive, over-the-top action for both the driving and on foot gameplay.

- use many different weapons, including guns and melee ones, which can be customized to your own liking.

- customize the look and feel of your vehicles (not just cars, but every other type of vehicle there is)

- unlicensed vehicles: allowing for all kinds of incredible damage, explosions, and physics that weren't possible in DSF

- on foot melee and stealth moves

- All kinds of new multiplayer ideas open up with using both shift and on foot gameplay.

Those are just a few of my suggestions. I may update this list in the near future.

- mind control shift gameplay: take possession of your enemies and cause them to commit suicide, turn on their own teammates, etc. Take control of their bullets to prevent Tanner from getting any damage or to hit a particular target that is in the direction that the bullet is facing. And, of course, this would be done with filling up the ability bar, making it sparingly used (to prevent the game from being too easy).

- ways to change the traffic system, weather, etc. With the 360 version, you could even have Kinect features, where you don't have to go through so many menus, just to change something simple like the time of day or weather. Instead, you just say, "change time of day to dawn," or "change weather to rain."

- a constantly changing day/night weather cycle in the game. With weather and wind conditions, you could see some pretty nice physics play out, too.

Also, having played (and almost done with the agency missions of) Just Cause 2, I can finally post some advice about what is there to learn from that game's pros and cons:

- Pro: getting a little more creative, even if it's with one idea, like a weapon (as Half-Life 2 and Portal 1 also demonstrated), can go a long way towards making a game feel much more fresh to play

- Con: having a really big map isn't necessarily always a good thing, especially if it consists mostly of nothing but killing and destroying everything, as you grind to get enough points to progress in the main story

- Con: do not have so few story missions, which just results in a game that's riddled with so many filler side quests (I'm looking at you, Elder Scrolls, too) and possibly might cause even less people to finish your game

- Con: if there's a really big world to explore, please let there be a huge variety of minigames and missions, instead of making these two structures so repetitive and old after you've completed a few of them.

- Con: make the vehicles a lot of fun to drive around in & give many different ones some driving missions as well (not just the law enforcement & performance vehicles)

[ManoelM]

I want a second Driver: San Francisco!

But, I’m telling you now already: guns and on foot, this isn’t going to happen, no matter how „hard“ you want it. There’s a reason why Reflections have taken distance from this, and as you see there was good reception. They’re not going to make a come back with on foot now that they’ve gone in another direction! It would be just useless, that’s like going back and forth instead of going in one specific direction.

[PeaceMaker_101]

Maybe there'll be on foot. Maybe not. I agree that the future is uncertain after how DSF turned out. Yet, I wouldn't rule out a way for Reflections to combine guns & vehicles by offering a more over-the-top vehicular combat experience. This way, we get awesome chases and a lot more explosions and destructive environments. Hmmm...something more like Twisted Metal (on the PS3) with open world gameplay, shift, and great driving physics would be interesting to see.

I want a really immersive driving experience, and the only way for that to happen is to really move the next game even more away from any of its driving or open world GTA competitors. Plus, we'd be able to see some influences from previous Reflections games like Destruction Derby and Stuntman if the next Driver game combines mounted guns and vehicles and using shift.

[brok2]

I wouldn't be so quick to say guns and on foot will never return- D:SF performed well enough in its category, but looking at those sales statistics someone put up lately, the strictly racer genre is still completely dwarfed in sales by the open sandbox category. Unless Watch Dogs becomes a new competent GTA competitor for Ubisoft, I'd be willing to be they'll take a good look at those sales comparisons and explore the options of a proper sandbox Driver post-haste. True, Reflections has stumbled with on foot controls before, but Ubisoft being the big multi-studio corporation that it is, even if Reflections still can't handle on foot, that would no longer be a problem as another studio could simply be reigned in to do it.

It then just comes down to whether or not they can do it right.

[PeaceMaker_101]

Well, regardless of what happens, I feel like Reflections should really take the random events idea to heart. It would present the game with all kinds of variety in missions and just exploring a city on its own, as opposed to having 99% of everything already there sit and remain in its original state.

Here's how I like to look at the idea of an even more living breathing world then ever before: when you pick up and play a game set in an open world, the majority of the game has not been explored by you, so, of course, there will be a lot of surprises along the journey. But, as you near the game's completion, having looked at all the shops/stores and other additional places filled with all sorts of activities, the game's world just suddenly feels more "dead." Unless developers provide a sort of more organic feel to the city and its buildings/objects, which is best done with randomly generated events going on all the time around the city, I don't think that open world games will be taken to the next level in terms of replayability and immersion. All future games without this feature will feel like nothing more but remakes or extensions of the same old gameplay and no really big steps in innovation.

Before such an experience is ever made possible, I will continue to think that no game has truly raised the bar higher than GTA: San Andreas.

[ManoelM]

I too like the random events idea. But sometimes, technically it just isn’t possible — that’s what most people forget

Remember that during missions in DSF, there was much more „life“ than during free roam at the end? For example parked vehicles near police stations or hospitals, parked cars on the streets and in side-streets, trash trucks going through side streets (where they pick up the trash), road blocks by the police, ambulances and police cars rushing somewhere, and very dense traffic. Probably the most noticeable one regarding the traffic would be the last mission. But even in the first mission there is very dense traffic.

The reason why this was possible was because other areas were „closed“, that means there wasn’t anything there at all. So all the power went in a single point, for example the traffic in the last mission. Notice how there’s red walls everywhere so you can’t go anywhere else? Because somewhere else, the streets would be just empty. Otherwise, the game couldn’t handle that.

The traffic in Driver: San Francisco is a very complex thing. I’m pretty sure it was very hard to make, so hard that Reflections even presented the way their traffic works at Develop Conference some days ago or so.

So, if technically it was possible, it would be amazing to have huge traffic jams, and accidents with road blocks, and not just police cars but ambulances and fire trucks too rushing to a destination, parked cars everywhere, etc etc. But as you see, it wasn’t possible in the present yet. Perhaps in the future!



So about the city feeling dead at the end. It’s not only because you’ve seen every corner of it, it is also because it actually IS a bit more dead. BUT — I think the solution here would be some DLC. For the city! Yup. I’ve heard that for a burnout game (don’t ask me which) there was an extra island that was made for DLC. And before the DLC was released, the road to the island was closed in the game.

Personally, I find this an amazing idea. Imagine the developers doing some DLC every month or so, with some changes to the city. Or even „preparing“ the DLC when they develop the game, and then it just automatically updates. For example: a normal street — nothing special. A month later, this street is closed because of a construction site or something. No traffic goes through it anymore and it becomes an „off road“ part. A month later again, the street is open and a new building or something is there. Things like that would be cool!

And not just with streets… you know, just everything.

What I also miss is in-game publicity. I know it sounds stupid because it actually is REAL publicity to wash our brains, but I think it gives the city more realism. The Getaway was full of them and it was funny to see publicity that you would see in real life too when walking on the street. It would be good money for Reflections and it would add realism. I’d love to see some kind of LED publicity panels, that change publicity all the time. A bit like here in my city.

[PeaceMaker_101]

I too like the random events idea. But sometimes, technically it just isn’t possible — that’s what most people forget

Remember that during missions in DSF, there was much more „life“ than during free roam at the end? For example parked vehicles near police stations or hospitals, parked cars on the streets and in side-streets, trash trucks going through side streets (where they pick up the trash), road blocks by the police, ambulances and police cars rushing somewhere, and very dense traffic. Probably the most noticeable one regarding the traffic would be the last mission. But even in the first mission there is very dense traffic.

Well, it's not like there would be any need for us to have these random events going on too often as we're driving through the city. Maybe it could even function sort of like how the weather system in open world games works. It's sunny, cloudy, and dark, with a little bit of rain and thunderstorms going on in the game from time to time. There could even be a feature where like in GTA IV, you have a phone, and you can use it to look up any interesting events going on throughout the city.

The game would then give you list of some events, and you could set it as your destination or have the game move to a loading screen and teleport you there in a matter of seconds. And even in the case of a mission, there could be random instances that change up the mission more, like a festival, protest, or march going on near that area.

With GTA V taking a spin on the issues of today more (particularly the bad economy), I feel like it will be even more down-to-earth than IV was. And if that happens, Reflections and other open world developers will really need to be competitive with this idea, too.

[ManoelM]

Reflections doesn’t need to do anything because they’re working on a complete different genre…

And I know that you guys wouldn’t mind just „some“ random events, which to be honest I wouldn’t either, but as you can see technically it isn’t even possible to have all the cars in free roam at the same time, so they needed to put them in different packs.

It’s impossible. If it was, they would have done it. Or do you think they’re that stupid? If technology was more advanced of course it would be possible to make a GTA kind of game with all cities on the planet and you could travel from one to the other, and all of them would be perfectly detailed and you could do pretty much everything in that game, it would be everyone’s dream game. BUT — it’s not the case, we still live in 2012 so we’ll have to wait

It makes me laugh sometimes how people think that developers are stupid and have no ideas and everyone else is like „hey why don’t they include this, why don’t they include that“ I’m pretty sure they have better and more realistic ideas than any of us here of what fits in a game and what not After all, it’s not just their hobby, it’s their job. Yes, their job!

[PeaceMaker_101]

Reflections doesn’t need to do anything because they’re working on a complete different genre…

And I know that you guys wouldn’t mind just „some“ random events, which to be honest I wouldn’t either, but as you can see technically it isn’t even possible to have all the cars in free roam at the same time, so they needed to put them in different packs.

It’s impossible. If it was, they would have done it. Or do you think they’re that stupid? If technology was more advanced of course it would be possible to make a GTA kind of game with all cities on the planet and you could travel from one to the other, and all of them would be perfectly detailed and you could do pretty much everything in that game, it would be everyone’s dream game. BUT — it’s not the case, we still live in 2012 so we’ll have to wait

It makes me laugh sometimes how people think that developers are stupid and have no ideas and everyone else is like „hey why don’t they include this, why don’t they include that“ I’m pretty sure they have better and more realistic ideas than any of us here of what fits in a game and what not After all, it’s not just their hobby, it’s their job. Yes, their job!

MMOs do random events. I remember playing Runescape and being approached by random people in game, who would present you with a rare quest or special item. Even random events occur in RPGs, where you are approached by enemies. Then there's a game like Borderlands, where the weapons are all so randomized and the places, too (this can be found in Diablo and many dungeon crawlers or RPGs with dungeons as well). What do you mean that causing some events to happen in one location at a time is not possible?

Just as I have said before, to simplify things more, you could even use a cellphone in the game (like in GTA IV) and go through a bunch of menus, until you find an event of interest, and the game would then teleport you there. What's so hard about this? Programming has allowed for all kinds of random things to be generated in various games of different genres as well as different apps for a long time now.

[ManoelM]

That’s not the same… every game is different.

I do music production, and I work in this business. Sometimes I have a great idea for a song, I know exactly which sounds I want in there and I have the perfect image of the track in my head.

But then, when it comes to reality, it can be completely different… sounds don’t fit together, sounds don’t „like“ each other and cause problems and frequencies interfere with each other. This is hard to explain because it’s all on a technical level, which later affects the final result. It would often need heavy modifications and sculpting to manage to get what I want in there. But this always leaves some traces...

It’s exactly the same with art. What’s the problem with throwing all colors on a single canvas? Well it will be a big mess because not all colors fit together. It will be pure crap to be precise.

And it’s the same again with video games. That’s things we don’t understand, we can not see what’s happening behind all of this system. Just because we see it in another game, it doesn’t mean it works in this one. Every game is constructed differently… no game is perfect, there is always something that makes problems. And then it needs tweaking…

I had several websites some years ago, one of which some of you may know, it was Driver-4.com — this site was #1 on Google search results for searches like „Driver 4“, „Driver 5“, „Next-Gen Driver“, or „Driver: Working Title“. Well actually for „Driver 4“ it was second, it was the DPL official site which was first, which made me really mad.
But anyway, my point is that I had to work really hard to achieve this. To push the site to the top.
The site was a very simple system. I made this site for people to post their wishes on what is now called Driver: San Francisco. People would come, choose a category (locations, vehicles, etc.) and post their wishes. It looks very simple when you visit the site first, and it also works very simply. No registration or anything… (which resulted in tons of pages of wishes)
The thing is, behind this very simple facade, there was a very complex system that always made some problems.

I had to tweak things in order to make OTHER things work. It’s all connected to each other… So sometimes there was a mistake and I was looking at a completely wrong place, I was miles away from where I should have been looking. But I didn’t know that. And I only knew once I found.

And I believe it’s the same with some of the stuff in DSF. People hate on the developers and are wondering why they don’t fix the lobby crash issue. Ever wondered that maybe they’ve been working on it for ages and haven’t found a solution yet? They’re not god who know everything, they’re normal people like you and me (and maybe some freaks).

I know that they’re working on DSF because it seems like they managed to get some memory off the game and more cars were included in the traffic now (more traffic diversity).

So, don’t think that this is a jigsaw puzzle where you take out one part and replace it by another that fits in this same place. It’s more like a house of cards, where everything is dependent of each other. You can try to take out one of the cards… but if you manage, good luck putting another one in there. If one collapses, everything collapses. It’s always been like that…


I hope I was able to get whoever was wondering about this some insight!