Sam's History | Forums

[rooster82]

I see a little bit of Sam in each of the main characters (Lambert, Grim, Sarah and Vic).

Sam and Lambert = They are professional ex soldiers who are dedicated to the mission at hand.
Sam and Grim = They use humor as a way of getting through a tense situation.
Sam and Sarah = They have a strong moral code and they do what they believe is right (For example: Sarah urging Sam to rescue Grim)
Sam and Vic = They believe in brotherhood and loyalty (For example: Sam refusing to believe Shetland is dirty, Vic rescuing Sam)

Redding is the only one I find hard to compare to Sam. But then again we never got to learn that much about him. We got to learn more about Vic than Redding to be honest.

@noodlenerd

SC5:

As much as revenge goes when Sam talks to the female scientists when she tells Sam or going to tell Sam that she was going to be killed, Sam says "Save it." I hint some doubt in saving the scientist. I am pretty sure Sam has plenty of time to hear her out but instead Sam decided to pump information out of her about the EMP. I guess Sam is too busy trying to save Sarah and not everyone else. (See there is another problem with this. The whole point of stopping the EMP is so that he can be saving Sarah but Grim told Vic to get Sarah out of there. If Sam knew, he didn't have to take out the EMP. He did know at the end of that mission but Sam could have at least shown some kind of resentment to stopping the EMP. Then again, maybe he does want to save everyone else b/c he still applies the no kill mandate.) Sam only saved the scientist because he needed to know how to take out the EMP. With this, you can really see how Sam has changed and forget about everyone else and just be himself and his flesh and blood, Sarah.

Well Sam needed to take the EMP because it would've hit Sarah's apartment and put her in danger, we all know this. However I don't believe that Sarah wwas his main priority. I think his main priority was to save everyone else. He knew he only had time to stop one EMP and it's logical for him to go to the one that was closest to Sarah's apartment because it's understandable as to why he would. He may be a rogue operative but he's still got a strong moral code. He's still a soldier. He'll protect the innocent no matter the cost. He even said in Malta that he'd rather not risk a firefight when there's civilians around. I think he'd ask himself what would Sarah want him to do. Would she want him to save her or everyone else? Would she be able to live with him knowing he saved her but allowed innocent people to die? Would he be able to live himself knowing what he did?

I think Sam would do anything for his daughter just like she'd do anything for him. When she told him to rescue Grim he agreed but only after Sarah and Vic forced him to, I guess you could say. He was still gonna do it but he wanted to make sure Sarah was safe first. That goes to show that he's still a soldier who will do what he believes is right but only if there's no other circumstances.

[sam2000_290]

@solidsage

lol did you make all those up yourself or the devs told you write it. You wrote in such professionalism that it seems you really, truly know who Sam is.

I don't think it's second chance at saving his country that brought Sam back to sanity. Sam didn't even want to take out the EMP. He said to Grim, "Why should I?". The only reason that seems relevant to Sam going back to sanity, though I still don't see how sanity has to do with Sam, is because he wants to save his daughter. That's about it. He could careless about everyone else. Writing this, seems to me that Sam has gone brutal just because of his daughter. He has no other reasons to live anymore anyways.

Has he really made the right choice? What about back in SC1 or any of the other SC games? There were plenty of enemies that are in his way and want to kill him. Like the Abattoir mission back in SC1. Nicoladze and his man knows Sam is there but Sam didn't have to kill them intentionally. Even in Double Agent, he didn't need to kill Emile's man. He didn't have to. The main target was Emile, Moss and the others. Much like SCC where the target is Reed, Sam didn't have to kill anyone of the guards.

Honestly, it seems that the only reason Sam goes brutal is his daughter but because his daughter is still alive, I see no reason for Sam to continue to be brutal. And it seems like everything before Conviction doesn't lead up to what Sam is today because he had a choice to not kill anyone at all.

Other than that it seems Sam's character is really subjective, Sam's history is not based on who HE is but how we define him. This is probably as good as reason as any.

However, there seems to be one fact that remains. Killing creates chaos for countries especially when bodies are found. Diplomatic incident is the consequence of this action. It may be even so in Blacklist, however, since it's a terrorist plot worldwide, the fall is always on the ones involved. That makes it easier for Sam to kill but with this, it has yet to be an intriguing story. Though I still think Sam story has a set define direction, especially because there's a series or a storyline through all games that needs to have some consistent elements that leads to Sam today or else it's just some random step of events that makes Sam just some random character with random emotions and personality.


@rooster82

Well Sam needed to take the EMP because it would've hit Sarah's apartment and put her in danger, we all know this. However I don't believe that Sarah wwas his main priority. I think his main priority was to save everyone else.

Sam didn't even want to take out the EMP. He said to Grim, "Why should I?". That's what caught my attention that Sam didn't want to save everyone.

Then again, maybe he does want to save everyone else b/c he still applies the no kill mandate.

Honestly, I don't know anymore. I really need to get inside Sam's head to figure it out.

Would she be able to live with him knowing he saved her but allowed innocent people to die?

However, he did allow innocent people to die. Not stopping the other 2 EMP seems to be Sam's fault, b/c he "presumably" had to stop the other 2 EMPs and should have taken out Reed before the EMP were set off. And because he resented to stopping the EMP that's going to hit her apartment in the first place. If Sam has a sense of "humanity" or judgement at the time Grim brought up the EMP and before Sarah, then I can say Sam honestly care about everyone. Because he didn't, I see Sam as a careless individual, to put in a bit ugly term.

Other than it perhaps yes, he still doesn't want to let innocent people die but out of force that he was unable to stop them in time and also Sam's head might be in complete chaos.

It's a bit confusing to understand Sam's motive and action.

[noodlenerd]

Something that is easy to forget is that Sam didn't actually see Sarah until the end of the EMP mission.

Up until that point he was only focused on Sarah, the only real meaning in his life. Also, You've got to renember that Sam, after Sarahs supposed death, in a way turned crazy, dedicating his life to finding out everything he could about his dead daughter instead of moving on.

So after the EMP mission, he helped Grim again, because he finally had something to fight for, I think. I do think he actually care for the innocent, and that a few of his rash comments before the EMP mission were results of a man being in a REALLY bad mood.


And everyone that complain about how Sam was a mindless killer in conviction; that|s entirely up to the player. Personally I didn't kill that much (close combat takedowns not including broken necks or bullets don't count as kills to me), and only when I had to.

[SolidSage]

@Sam
What I wrote is how I perceive Sam after playing him over the years. Not Dev directed in any way. and probably quite different than they intend and I am sure very different than other people see or play Sam.

In SCC it is hard to see what keeps driving Sam after finding Sarah alive, but the whole ordeal is occurs over what appears to be a short time frame and the level of the threat to the U.S is more immediate than Sam has ever seen. So with him still being off balance from all the mind fudging he goes through in C, I kind of get why his decisions are perhaps erratic or contradictory some times. To me, it was the episode where we had the most chance of losing Sam to the dark side I never forget that Sam, no matter how endearing, is a man that kills for a career. He IS a killer, whether those actions are justifiable or not, the effect on his psyche from doing it for so many years has to have a lasting effect.

I can understand him getting to a point where he wanted to stop and I can also understand him easily slipping back into it, or even going over the top with it.

I agree that is character is largely based on how we the Player, played him, regardless of the comments he made during those play throughs about not wanting to kill or whatever. He made plenty of threatening comments to enemies about killing them in a very dark humored way too, and it comes so easily to him.

[noodlenerd]

In SCC it is hard to see what keeps driving Sam after finding Sarah alive, but the whole ordeal is occurs over what appears to be a short time frame and the level of the threat to the U.S is more immediate than Sam has ever seen. So with him still being off balance from all the mind fudging he goes through in C, I kind of get why his decisions are perhaps erratic or contradictory some times. To me, it was the episode where we had the most chance of losing Sam to the dark side I never forget that Sam, no matter how endearing, is a man that kills for a career. He IS a killer, whether those actions are justifiable or not, the effect on his psyche from doing it for so many years has to have a lasting effect.

I can understand him getting to a point where he wanted to stop and I can also understand him easily slipping back into it, or even going over the top with it.

I agree that is character is largely based on how we the Player, played him, regardless of the comments he made during those play throughs about not wanting to kill or whatever. He made plenty of threatening comments to enemies about killing them in a very dark humored way too, and it comes so easily to him.

Spot on, especially the bolded part.

[sam2000_290]

@noodlenerd

Up until that point he was only focused on Sarah, the only real meaning in his life. Also, You've got to renember that Sam, after Sarahs supposed death, in a way turned crazy, dedicating his life to finding out everything he could about his dead daughter instead of moving on.

See the confusing part is that Grim actually told Sam, she was alive in the beginning, because she is alive, was Sam really that angry to kill everyone? Was it even necessary? See this is another plot element that confuses. The whole story while seemingly understandable but looking deeper is actually quite misleading and confusing.

@solidsage

I agree.

I guess perhaps if we can actually experience it, we can understand it but, who wants to actually have to experience it. Perhaps maybe a real life event along the same line may help understand better. For one, I can relate to Sam's anger and actually want to be violent, I am not saying I am violent, lol, but because I have experienced a lot of situations and accidents in my life that really pushes my button and I am filled with rage, I just can't explode or release my anger. I had to do things that helps to minimize the explosion, so to speak. For one thing I play SCC from time to time to release anger. Having to put frustration and rage into video games certainly helps. Shooting off random robotic people in game certainly helps ease the pain. Other than that, no one should be experiencing any kind of substantial emotional turmoil.

Other than that, I guess we can play Sam and build him as we like. So in Blacklist we can build him the agent we always wanted or intended to be.

[noodlenerd]

See the confusing part is that Grim actually told Sam, she was alive in the beginning, because she is alive, was Sam really that angry to kill everyone? Was it even necessary? See this is another plot element that confuses. The whole story while seemingly understandable but looking deeper is actually quite misleading and confusing.

It doesn't have to be confusing though. He hasn't seen Sarah with his own eyes, it|s hard realising your dead daughter might still be alive after all, especially if you only have the word of a former work associate

[sameer_monier]

It doesn't have to be confusing though. He hasn't seen Sarah with his own eyes, it|s hard realising your dead daughter might still be alive after all, especially if you only have the word of a former work associate

I would like to add, he you used to trust, and actually knew Sarah is alive, did she just know now, did she know for too long, why didn't she tell him before, how is his daughter alive when his most trusted friend Lambert told him she died !!!, of course he will get hasty and would want to do things quickly ((since he is capable of without getting himself killed)) so that he can know the answers.

[sam2000_290]

It doesn't have to be confusing though. He hasn't seen Sarah with his own eyes, it|s hard realising your dead daughter might still be alive after all, especially if you only have the word of a former work associate

why didn't she tell him before, how is his daughter alive when his most trusted friend Lambert told him she died !!!

Well, that explains a lot about Sam and Grim. Sam doesn't trust Grim after all they have been through. It's funny how Sam trusts Lambert, his best friend that betrayed him but fails to figure the truth that Sarah is actually is alive when Grim told him. Would you not trust the person that held Sarah as hostage? Certainly I would because it shows that there is a chance of the hostage actually surviving.

Now I can see a huge problem with Conviction because only 1 decision was canon when in fact the whole storyline in DA has to be considered. For one thing, it's hard to explain Sam's behaviour. Another thing is that, because her death is an accident, and the devs cancelled this, the devs couldn't form a proper plot in SCC. Lambert was with Sam the whole time in DA at least during missions, there doesn't seem to be any time taken away for him to deal with the mole. ****, couldn't properly carry out my thought, but I had something. Anyways, all of DA storyline should be considered. They should have some kind of impact in SCC. And let's say Lambert was in deed alive, how would the story have changed? Perhaps Reed kills Lambert. (How did Reed become the leader anyways?) Maybe Sam would kill Lambert because he finds out he used her.

Anyways, I guess Sam's action is justified upon our own interpretation and our story of Sam.

[SolidSage]

@Dex
I'm sorry about that, I hope it wasn't me. Sometimes it seems to depend on what side of the bed members got up on. Some times I think we are just looking for a bit of abuse.

@Sam
yeah you are right, it's easy to want to be a hero or a SEAL or whatever, or release your rage, but only in real life do we get to truly consider and reflect on the consequences. Nothing against the guys that have had to do some of these things but at the end of the day, I don't really want to do any killing or hurting. I believe the phrase "by the sword" holds some truth to it. It's like being a Prison Guard for example, it's a decent job and pays well but at the end of the day, they still have to hang out in prison around prisoners. Granted, they are on the light side of the coin but they still have to be around all that negativity and anger and danger etc.

Good killers are still surrounded by death. It has to have an effect on your personal life.


@All
Kind of why i am enjoying SC as more of a game in the latest iterations. Legacy was a bit too realistic maybe. I want to play, not feel bad about 'killing' a bit of code.