SMGs are unbalanced | Forums

[Compassghost]

It's not whether or not the gun causes it, jspook, it's the rate and amount which it's done.

One or two flinches are recoverable, but three approaches unrecoverable, especially when dealt three times within a second. The aim literally locks at a place that cannot be re-aimed.



Let's say we have the following example.

Recon with MP5K Silenced, 21 damage.

Assault has 23% armor and 6 Toughness inserts. Resulting damage is 10.

The Recon proceeds to try and kill the Assault. Now, the Recon needs to land 14 bullets to kill the assault without crit.

After the first 4, the Assault, who was originally aiming at body mass, is now aiming approximately 3 feet above the recon's head. If he chooses to fire, the aim gets worse. If he chooses not to fire, additional hits will continue to push his aim to approximately 3 feet above the recon's head.

In other words, the recon has complete control of the situation until he stops shooting because the assault is dead or out of ammo. It simply is, in my experience, impossible to shoot a target after being hit with a high-ROF SMG until you are dead or until they are out of ammo.

[ThyGromovnik]

OP is just qqing.

If you are talking about me, I did not start this thread but I continue to post seeing as this is the feedback area of the forum. Just shows how much attention you are giving in this thread. If you are not talking about me then disregard this part. But I will say that discussing a faulty game mechanic with examples and video evidence is not qqing but providing feedback.

On top of the LMG's don't have flinch argument

Please point to me in what post did anyone say that the LMG's do not have flinch.

The OP will make up outright lies so he can use a ranged scope and AR/LMG to beat EVERYTHING at any range in any situation.

Let's sum this up, shall we? Between you and jspook, this is what your arguments were : first it was the matter of handling, then the ROF, then prefire advice, then omg noob l2p advice, then scopes and now you are calling me and everyone else who agrees that the issue needs looking into, a liar. Even when video evidence is presented. I think you are running out of excuses here or just being blindly ignorant.

[jiknm]

Again, as I sad in my earlier post, that LMG with 1000 ROF is the Para LMG variant and shooting somebody with it does not inflict that amount of flinch (if any)

If ANY

[Compassghost]

The M249 para definitely does not result in dramatic flinch. At closer ranges, it kills before the flinch affects players. At longer ranges, it does not maintain the accuracy.

[LordSemaj]

Let's sum this up, shall we? Between you and jspook, this is what your arguments were : first it was the matter of handling, then the ROF, then prefire advice, then omg noob l2p advice, then scopes and now you are calling me and everyone else who agrees that the issue needs looking into, a liar. Even when video evidence is presented. I think you are running out of excuses here or just being blindly ignorant.

Actually it's because he joined four days before beta ended and only played 40 hours... as a RECON.

The dude has no experience with the issue and likes his OP SMG. I just registered on the forums when beta ended, but I at least played my fill of all classes for weeks. Recon was the easiest. And Compass? He's been at this for months.

[Compassghost]

Actually it's because he joined four days before beta ended and only played 40 hours... as a RECON.

The dude has no experience with the issue and likes his OP SMG. I just registered on the forums when beta ended, but I at least played my fill of all classes for weeks. Recon was the easiest. And Compass? He's been at this for months.

Actually, 40 hours in 4 days = 10 hours/day. That's quite a lot of Recon, even in 4 days.

I've been both on the receiving and giving end of the SMGs, and I feel that the flinch, at least from SMGs, should be reduced a tad to put it in line with other guns' comparable flinches.

Being hit by a sniper rifle causes the same flinch as an SMG from what I can tell. However, sniper rifle flinch is recoverable for an assault since the bullets do not come in at a high rate. Half a second resets the view to an appropriate firing stance when sniped and flinching.

With the SMG, it's a constant flinch. Your first flinch puts you up and to the left. Additional shots build from this position, making it significantly harder to account for the climb of the weapon.

When compared to ARs, and Sniper Rifles, the flinch from the SMG is harder to recover from in most cases because of:

A. Rate of Fire - the amount of rounds being fired at you. You are much more likely to get a significant amount of rounds into you within a second, especially from MP7s. No one complains about sniper flinch because the rounds are intermittent. You do flinch, but it's only for one bullet. For SMGs, you can flinch three or four times easily within a second, and oftentimes seven or more, which is much harder to recover from.
B. Stopping Power - the lack of damage of individual rounds. The SMGs by default have low crit rate. While LMGs, even the high-ROF para, also cause flinch, they either kill you too fast for you to notice the full effects, either through critting or through just killing you with consecutive shots. The SMG lacks both stopping power and crit, allowing you to suffer from more and more flinch effects before reaching the same state that you would have reached had you been shot by an assault rifle or an LMG.
C. Accuracy - the range at which these weapons are fired limits the chance of continued deviation. Coupled with A and B, this results in perhaps 5 to 10 of the shots within a 1 second span to strike you easily, compounding the effect of the flinch.

Simply put, the flinch is the same across the board, but due to the FIRING MECHANICS of the SMG, its effects are far more pronounced than any of the other weapons, because you are more likely to last longer and observe the effects of the flinch before dying.

[ThyGromovnik]

Simply put, the flinch is the same across the board, but due to the FIRING MECHANICS of the SMG, its effects are far more pronounced than any of the other weapons, because you are more likely to last longer and observe the effects of the flinch before dying.

Could not said it better myself, Compass.

From my point of view, the SMG should keep the high ROF as they clearly need it, but decreasing the multiplication on flinch effect would definitely balance things out. Perhaps adding a cap to the max flinch effect would be a nice and clean solution.

Actually it's because he joined four days before beta ended and only played 40 hours... as a RECON.

Yea, probably that. Since only 2 people in this whole thread were against any kind of change to the SMG's I think that is a indicator in it self that the issue needs to be addressed.

[JDCAce]

...this results in perhaps 5 to 10 of the shots within a 1 second span to strike you easily, compounding the effect of the flinch.

Given the switch to dedicated servers, and the (apparent) lack of lag compensation, the time can decrease to 0.25 second. Yes, I (an Assault with 150+ health) literally have died to an SMG in about a quarter of a second. The death report after I died showed all the bullets (probably about 8) and none were critical hits.