SMGs are unbalanced | Forums

[SkillShots1337]

I could make the argument that any weapon in just about any situation can be over powered. Semi-Automatic Snipers that one hit kills anywhere(even in the foot), Lmgs that pump out over 100 damage on crits, shot guns that lace 20+ damage per pellet from mid range, Assault rifles with little to no recoil and putting out 30+ damage and 50+ on crits, and smgs that put out 20 damage and 30 on crits but cause you to flinch. But I will say this, SMG's get owned from people with cover and high ground. Now that I think of it...the only thing that doesnt seem a bit over powered is the default bolt sniper. I used a lot of default MP5 on my mission to level 20 (only got to level 19). And i got worked many times when I landed the first shot against people with health over 150. Landing 6+ shots before someone can get 3 on you is tough to do head on in any situation. I felt with my 120 max health that LMGs and semi auto snipers were the toughest opponents. But if i got in a short range situation, the only thing i had to worry about was shotguns, and another smg. Whoever said SMG's have low recoil should really try and hit someone 7 or 8 times from mid to long range. Also, there were many times I saw hit markers of less than 10 with my SMGs. I also drained opponents so much faster with lmg and assault rifles. So i guess my point is my in my opening line. I also got killed a lot more when mid range flanking with an SMG compared to when i used the lmg and ar's.

[Inceptious]

Agreed overall the flinch needs toned down on smgs and i'd be happy and it still would be a hard class to play against.

[jiknm]

Actually I was referring to the following situation : there is me behind a corner and I hear enemy approaching. Oracle goes off and now i know there is a recon incoming, scanning the same corner where i stand. So we both know there is a enemy right around corner and the **** is about to hit the fan.

I aim (form hip or ADS, does not matter in this case but with high lvl scopes the flinch is even worse) in the direction he will come. He makes a few steps and enters my line of fire, we both fire simultaneously but due to higher ROF of SMG he hits me first.

Once again, I have NO PROBLEM with SMG's ROF, he is entitled to fire faster than my AR. But then my screen goes red, reticule now up in air and I die without firing a single bullet in his direction despite aiming at the exact spot he came from. Now tell me that is not broken.

And if you bothered to even read my previous post you would see that I have no issues with ROF, Handling, DMG, Acc or any other aspect of SMG but the flinch is a gamebreaker. Too bad you just want to keep your precious unbalanced toy instead improving the game.

I did bother to read the your previous post and considering your language I would say it is fair that you are trying to make fun of me. In retaliation, I would like to call you a noob who is simply being outplayed by better players You say that you bother fire simulatenously, but due to higher ROF he hits you first. This simply isn't true as ROF is the time between shots not the time it takes for the gun to begin firing. What allows an smg user to hit you first is the improved handling that allows him to pull up his gun faster. Hip fire is also very inaccurate meaning that you need to aim down your sights to consistently place shots even at semi-close range. You seem to be using a scope with higher than 1x zoom. It is important to note that SMG users use 1x zoom scopes and always aim down their sights even at near point-blank ranges. From what I'm hearing, you're expecting your spray/hip-fire to magically hit the opponent based on nothing but dumb luck. As I have said earlier(if you bothered to read my posts earlier), SMG ROF isn't even that high compared to ARs and LMG. For example, there is an LMG with 1000ROF (Higher than any SMG) whilst doing much more dmg, based on your logic this LMG should beat an SMG at all times since the LMG has higher ROF he would hit the SMG user first. In my opinion, you should learn to play the game before you try to talk balance as you clearly don't know much about it.

Also, what do you think SMGs are for?

[Inceptious]

I did bother to read the your previous post and considering your language I would say it is fair that you are trying to make fun of me. In retaliation, I would like to call you a noob who is simply being outplayed by better players You say that you bother fire simulatenously, but due to higher ROF he hits you first. This simply isn't true as ROF is the time between shots not the time it takes for the gun to begin firing. What allows an smg user to hit you first is the improved handling that allows him to pull up his gun faster. Hip fire is also very inaccurate meaning that you need to aim down your sights to consistently place shots even at semi-close range. You seem to be using a scope with higher than 1x zoom. It is important to note that SMG users use 1x zoom scopes and always aim down their sights even at near point-blank ranges. From what I'm hearing, you're expecting your spray/hip-fire to magically hit the opponent based on nothing but dumb luck. As I have said earlier(if you bothered to read my posts earlier), SMG ROF isn't even that high compared to ARs and LMG. For example, there is an LMG with 1000ROF (Higher than any SMG) whilst doing much more dmg, based on your logic this LMG should beat an SMG at all times since the LMG has higher ROF he would hit the SMG user first. In my opinion, you should learn to play the game before you try to talk balance as you clearly don't know much about it.

Also, what do you think SMGs are for?

The point is that the recon using the smg does not have as much flinch as the guy who is shooting him, so he can actually aim while getting shot at and once he gets his first shot into the enemy they will no longer be able to aim. It is clearly broken and does need a nerf.

[ThyGromovnik]

The point is that the recon using the smg does not have as much flinch as the guy who is shooting him, so he can actually aim while getting shot at and once he gets his first shot into the enemy they will no longer be able to aim. It is clearly broken and does need a nerf.

Well put Inceptious, just what I am trying to say.

I did bother to read the your previous post and considering your language I would say it is fair that you are trying to make fun of me.

As you may or may not tell from my nick, English is not my native tongue so sorry if I appear condescending or mocking, this is just my stile of writing. But I wold like to point out that you called me "full of it" a couple of posts back and keep insisting that the Handling and ROF stats are the root of my problems where i clearly state that flinch does not have anything to do with it.

I would like to call you a noob who is simply being outplayed by better players

Honestly I do not care if you call me a noob, I may not be the pro player like you but getting the MVP award in average every other match is enough for me.

You seem to be using a scope with higher than 1x zoom.

The scope I use on all of my guns is the first 750 RP Assault scope with 1,5 magnification as it just suits my stile of play best, I did try other ones, especially the 1x zoom red dot scopes but I keep coming back to the 1,5 Assault scope for a bit more precision in long range fights.

For example, there is an LMG with 1000ROF (Higher than any SMG) whilst doing much more dmg, based on your logic this LMG should beat an SMG at all times since the LMG has higher ROF he would hit the SMG user first.

Again, as I sad in my earlier post, that LMG with 1000 ROF is the Para LMG variant and shooting somebody with it does not inflict that amount of flinch (if any), the person under fire is still able to shoot back. And I won't even mention the difference in spread and Acc of the two weapon types. Another indicator that you read only things you want to read and skip the rest. Maybe try playing with any other class other than Recon and see for yourself.

In my opinion, you should learn to play the game before you try to talk balance as you clearly don't know much about it.

Opinion noted, I guess playing this game for some 3 months now is not sufficient to make any reasonable feedback by your standards. As of such, the "omg noob l2p" advice you gave to all players that see the issue with flinch is not constructive, helpful or reasonable by my standards. It only shows that you enjoy exploiting a broken game mechanic and are scared what would happen if the playfied is set to a more balanced tone.

[pitsl4yer]

The scope I use on all of my guns is the first 750 RP Assault scope with 1,5 magnification as it just suits my stile of play best, I did try other ones, especially the 1x zoom red dot scopes but I keep coming back to the 1,5 Assault scope for a bit more precision in long range fights.

Dude..... This is your ENTIRE problem in a nutshell.

You cant seriously expect to be using a ranged scope against a CQB weapon and not expect it to jump around like a ***** on payday. Almost EVERY recon out there puts a premium open reflex on their smg's. Do you have any idea what kind of a difference that makes in strafing combat?

there is absolutely no way you can compete with an open reflex sight if you are using a closed scope at those ranges, and you firing from the hip against that is almost never going to work.

I have an open reflex on my MK16, and I have never experienced this debilitating flinch that you guys are raving about. well..... this is why. consider actually getting a CQB sight before you cry about getting pwzowned in a CQB fight when you have seriously limited yourself with your equipment.

The premium open reflex sight allows you to stay in the fight with an AR against **** near anything. and you can hold the gun pretty steady even when getting shot buy an smg. Yes, it still jerks you around, but not like you are describing, and you can stay in the fight and usually come out on top. at least with the MK16, that is..... I have only used that and the opening weap as an assault. and let me tell you, I survive a lot more in CQB as an assault then I ever do CQB with my recon.

[Compassghost]

I don't know if I have footage still, but using the reflex sight and getting shot while on my assault, I was aiming three feet above the person's target and unable to compensate for it as additional bullets struck me. Even using a high-DPI mouse, it seemed that my aim reset to the same place every time I attempted to compensate...

[pitsl4yer]

I am using a pretty high DPI mouse, but I only have it set to 1000 DPI when I play. Its not that hard to aim down when getting shot if using a reflex.

I think the major difference here compass being that you almost always go exclusively for a headshots with yours, and I dont see the point when I am AR'ing. When I have that reflex on center mass and start taking smg rounds.... its a kill for me. I can easily see how it kicks your sights above the head, and it should, especially when thats where you were trying to aim to begin with.

I can start taking footage when the OB starts, but this problem is not the super killer that this OP makes it out to be. Killing recons is much easier than any other class type. And just because they can take down one target does not make them some super weapon, especially when an assault or specialist can kill far more effectively in group situations.

So what.... 1v1 the recon has a advantage..... Last time I checked this game was about a team capping the points. and the only classes that can seriously wreck shop in a fully auto firefight against multiple opponents.... doesnt include recon. It's balanced that way on purpose. Recon is already a paper target. they are designed to take out those lone wolf players, and they are exceptional at it. But when they run into 2 assault guys at once??? dead meat. the same cannot be said the other way around.

AR's chew up targets, smg's need sustained fire and a reload. it's pretty much fair the way it is set up.

[ThyGromovnik]

You cant seriously expect to be using a ranged scope against a CQB weapon and not expect it to jump around like a ***** on payday. Almost EVERY recon out there puts a premium open reflex on their smg's. Do you have any idea what kind of a difference that makes in strafing combat?

Well, I did try all of the open reflex scopes (including the premium open reflex one) on both AR's and LMG's (don't even want to think about how many RP I spent this way) and the flinch was still present.
The fact that you never experienced this flinch we are talking about is quite baffling to me. Maybe if you did, you wold be against it as am I. Let me assure you that being in flinch-lock with no way to return fire as soon as the first bullet hits you is not fun at all.
Currently the Recon class can take any other class head on and win, because of the SMG's built-in flinch disruption effect, now tell me how is this fair or balanced in any way?

[Compassghost]

I am using a pretty high DPI mouse, but I only have it set to 1000 DPI when I play. Its not that hard to aim down when getting shot if using a reflex.

I think the major difference here compass being that you almost always go exclusively for a headshots with yours, and I dont see the point when I am AR'ing. When I have that reflex on center mass and start taking smg rounds.... its a kill for me. I can easily see how it kicks your sights above the head, and it should, especially when thats where you were trying to aim to begin with.

I can start taking footage when the OB starts, but this problem is not the super killer that this OP makes it out to be. Killing recons is much easier than any other class type. And just because they can take down one target does not make them some super weapon, especially when an assault or specialist can kill far more effectively in group situations.

So what.... 1v1 the recon has a advantage..... Last time I checked this game was about a team capping the points. and the only classes that can seriously wreck shop in a fully auto firefight against multiple opponents.... doesnt include recon. It's balanced that way on purpose. Recon is already a paper target. they are designed to take out those lone wolf players, and they are exceptional at it. But when they run into 2 assault guys at once??? dead meat. the same cannot be said the other way around.

AR's chew up targets, smg's need sustained fire and a reload. it's pretty much fair the way it is set up.

This is the flinch on my screen after 2 shots from an AR.



I'm not sure how else I can compensate for the fact that my game has gone into FPS mode.

Look at where I'm supposed to be literally aiming, compared to the center of the screen. The compensation required for that shot is utterly ridiculous.