Let's try making sense of Connor's neutrality | Forums

[LightRey]

Yes I did, let me break it down for you so it's easier to grasp. He accused the Brits of being Rabble rabble. That means that they are just mindlessly complaining without saying what should be done instead. As I explained that is not the case at all. They have a very clear idea of what should be done instead.

No, he's accused the people on this forum ranting on about all this of basically yelling "rabble rabble", he's not accusing the Brits of anything. Most Brits actually don't give a rat's little behind. You didn't explain anything. You have presented no examples, no analysis, not even a description of their point of view. You're just making a claim and not giving any evidence to support it, i.e. you're rabbling.

[TheHumanTowel]

On your first point didn't Altair have targets on both sides of the war? I think the first game is a good example of the Assassin's neutrality rather than being politically explicit. Altair kills Christian and Muslim targets and I don't think it's ever stated that Altair is a muslim.

[Sushiglutton]

No, he's accused the people on this forum ranting on about all this of basically yelling "rabble rabble", he's not accusing the Brits of anything. Most Brits actually don't give a rat's little behind. You didn't explain anything. You have presented no examples, no analysis, not even a description of their point of view. You're just making a claim and not giving any evidence to support it, i.e. you're rabbling.

I used "the Brits" as meaning those critical of the marketing campaign. Sorry that was sloppy of me. I should have known someone like u would jump at that. I did give examples (it's right after the words "For example").

[LightRey]

On your first point didn't Altair have targets on both sides of the war? I think the first game is a good example of the Assassin's neutrality rather than being politically explicit. Altair kills Christian and Muslim targets and I don't think it's ever stated that Altair is a muslim.

The thing is though that all these people are part of a (supposedly) Christian order and the Assassins at the time were all Arab and predominantly Muslim (Altaïr seems to have been an exception, though it's not entirely clear what exactly his religious beliefs were, if he had any), with no Christians.

I used "the Brits" as meaning those critical of the marketing campaign. Sorry that was sloppy of me. I should have known someone like u would jump at that. I did give examples (it's right after the words "For example").

Then you should not be making comments suggesting something that is untrue. Saying they are "Brits" is like saying the British in general agree and would side with them, which again is utter nonsense.

I'm talking about examples of how he's wrong, not how you think they should have shown things.

[NeroInfernoF7]

God bless you for this thread, seriously, thank you.

[TheHumanTowel]

The thing is though that all these people are part of a (supposedly) Christian order and the Assassins at the time were all Arab and predominantly Muslim (Altaïr seems to have been an exception, though it's not entirely clear what exactly his religious beliefs were, if he had any), with no Christians.

The Templars are only a christian organisation on the surface though. Their overarching goal is world peace, they don't have a religious agenda. Judging by Sibrand's confession I'd say the majority of them were atheists.

[BATISTABUS]

*Applause and tears*

[SaintPerkele]

While I agree with your post in certain terms, I still have to make some corrections.

1) No. In the game, the Assassins were clearly depicted as atheists. Their enemies were on both sides of the war and not "mostly European crusaders". In fact, I think there were only four Christian Templars (Robert de Sable, Garnier de Naplouse, William of Montferrat and Sibrand) and five Muslim targets (of course you can't really talk about their Religion, as most of the Templars are depicted as atheists as well). There were no "European" Assassins, as the Assassin order was historically founded in Syria and AC1 is the most historically accurate. In additional games such as Bloodlines however, we learn that Maria Amiel for example became an Assassin as well and even the love interest for Altair, clearly showing that the Assassins are not siding with anyone. Also, King Richard was depicted rather heroic.
"We killed English, Germans, Saracens, and I think French as well, then nobody complained." - that's why nobody complained, because we were shown, even in the early gameplay trailers and screenshots, that everyone can be an enemy to the Assassins and not just one side of the war.

2) What? Of course we would. At least I would. The French Revolution is the perfect example for what an AC game should be about: People uprising against an absolute system (a cause which would be supported by the Assassins), which eventually turned into a new reign of terror. If one has a certain historical knowledge, one should know about Robespierre, who was a brutal mass-murderer and yet one of the most importan leaders of the revolution. I would become very, very critical if the revolutionists were only depicted as heroes.

3) Did you read The Fall? The Russian Revolution plays an important role and is supported by the Assassins, yet the red flag (which is as a matter of fact an equally important symbol as the American flag) is almost never shown, especially not on the cover art. Showing the flag in order to show the setting is perfectly fine. Depicting Connor in front of the flag which is waving in the wind, indicating that he is siding with someone, however is not. The British flag has only been shown in a bad context (e.g. the live action trailer, where it is pulled down from the wall).

4) Yes. However, other media released by Ubisoft contradicts this statement, which is what many fans are mad about.

5) Yes, if you do it a couple of times. But now it's just always the same..

6) Yes, in certain terms. In other trailers however this is not the case.

7) Definitely.

8) Indeed.

9) Wrong. The Continentals are no in the same position as the Muslims. The American Natives are. The Continentals are just invaders as well, with the only difference that they are still dominated by another empire.

10) I never heard anyone complaining about the Bald Eagle. It's a typical American eagle, so it's perfectly fine to show it.

11) Monteriggioni was shown to be a city founded by the Assassins. The Assassins did not really support the Medici and the Sforzas - they were just attacked by Templars and as such the Assasssins could kill two birds with one stone: Eliminating Templars and getting at least a certain support by political leaders. So yes, political allegiance, but only for their own purpose.
Also, the Saracenes were fighting the Assassins all the time. They never sided with Saladin.

12) That's what I'm hoping for.

[Sushiglutton]

I'm talking about examples of how he's wrong, not how you think they should have shown things.

He is wrong because he claims that those complaining have no idea what they want, instead they are just "rabble rabble". As my examples shows that is not the case.

[TheHumanTowel]

While I agree with your post in certain terms, I still have to make some corrections.

1) No. In the game, the Assassins were clearly depicted as atheists. Their enemies were on both sides of the war and not "mostly European crusaders". In fact, I think there were only four Christian Templars (Robert de Sable, Garnier de Naplouse, William of Montferrat and Sibrand) and five Muslim targets (of course you can't really talk about their Religion, as most of the Templars are depicted as atheists as well). There were no "European" Assassins, as the Assassin order was historically founded in Syria and AC1 is the most historically accurate. In additional games such as Bloodlines however, we learn that Maria Amiel for example became an Assassin as well and even the love interest for Altair, clearly showing that the Assassins are not siding with anyone. Also, King Richard was depicted rather heroic.
"We killed English, Germans, Saracens, and I think French as well, then nobody complained." - that's why nobody complained, because we were shown, even in the early gameplay trailers and screenshots, that everyone can be an enemy to the Assassins and not just one side of the war.

2) What? Of course we would. At least I would. The French Revolution is the perfect example for what an AC game should be about: People uprising against an absolute system (a cause which would be supported by the Assassins), which eventually turned into a new reign of terror. If one has a certain historical knowledge, one should know about Robespierre, who was a brutal mass-murderer and yet one of the most importan leaders of the revolution. I would become very, very critical if the revolutionists were only depicted as heroes.

3) Did you read The Fall? The Russian Revolution plays an important role and is supported by the Assassins, yet the red flag (which is as a matter of fact an equally important symbol as the American flag) is almost never shown, especially not on the cover art. Showing the flag in order to show the setting is perfectly fine. Depicting Connor in front of the flag which is waving in the wind, indicating that he is siding with someone, however is not. The British flag has only been shown in a bad context (e.g. the live action trailer, where it is pulled down from the wall).

4) Yes. However, other media released by Ubisoft contradicts this statement, which is what many fans are mad about.

5) Yes, if you do it a couple of times. But now it's just always the same..

6) Yes, in certain terms. In other trailers however this is not the case.

7) Definitely.

8) Indeed.

9) Wrong. The Continentals are no in the same position as the Muslims. The American Natives are. The Continentals are just invaders as well, with the only difference that they are still dominated by another empire.

10) I never heard anyone complaining about the Bald Eagle. It's a typical American eagle, so it's perfectly fine to show it.

11) Monteriggioni was shown to be a city founded by the Assassins. The Assassins did not really support the Medici and the Sforzas - they were just attacked by Templars and as such the Assasssins could kill two birds with one stone: Eliminating Templars and getting at least a certain support by political leaders. So yes, political allegiance, but only for their own purpose.
Also, the Saracenes were fighting the Assassins all the time. They never sided with Saladin.

12) That's what I'm hoping for.

Pretty much agree with everything in this post. The OP is right in a lot of cases but this is pretty perfect.