Grim: If Jadid dies, the mission was for nothing! | Forums

[Andre202]

lol i was talking about the issue that Deus Ex brought up with "what does it mean to be human"
and our we losing our humanity becoming something ells

My fault, I misunderstood you there. Yeah, Deus Ex does give you very important questions/information from a lot of viewpoints and you are the one to decide whether that's really what should happen in the future or not. You can decide whether Adam Jensen is still a human or not. Very important and the same goes for the legacy series here.

well, lets makes some more logical development in that SCB scene for devs, how about give us a cutscene like few of Jadid's men joining in while Sam just take Jadid as hostage and was about to leave, they sees Sam and trys to take him out but accidentally shots Jadid. problem solved. the ex-seal protagonist looks more competent in this kinda development
or just simply give Jadid a pill under his tongue or hides somewhere in his shirt where he can reach even when both hands got tie up.

The problem is they found a very cheap way to get Jadid killed by himself through Sam's hands who is supposed the best elite agent. Doesn't sound believeable. You would need to think whether it would make sense if Jadid's men are joining when you cleared the whole area or just ghosted through up to Jadid. Would it make sense to see reinforcements coming in as if you have alerted everyone although you didn't? It would be another way for the writer to justify the death of Jadid but he doesn't consider all the different players who will be playing this game. You may have a scene with Jadid just like with Shetland. Jadid is talking with someone, both have their bodyguards and since they both don't agree with each other Jadid gets killed through the others and you are at a position where you cannot hinder his death. Be creative, but don't put in such cheap ways to kill him. Maybe, but really just maybe they have written just a really short story just for the demo. But I really don't think that's the case. That demo has more cliche bombs compared to Conviction's demo.

whatever .......now cut to the obligatory UAV control IR-image airstrike sequence!!!

I really hate this.

[coltcat]

The problem is they found a very cheap way to get Jadid killed by himself through Sam's hands who is supposed the best elite agent. Doesn't sound believeable. You would need to think whether it would make sense if Jadid's men are joining when you cleared the whole area or just ghosted through up to Jadid. Would it make sense to see reinforcements coming in as if you have alerted everyone although you didn't? It would be another way for the writer to justify the death of Jadid but he doesn't consider all the different players who will be playing this game. You may have a scene with Jadid just like with Shetland. Jadid is talking with someone, both have their bodyguards and since they both don't agree with each other Jadid gets killed through the others and you are at a position where you cannot hinder his death. Be creative, but don't put in such cheap ways to kill him. Maybe, but really just maybe they have written just a really short story just for the demo. But I really don't think that's the case. That demo has more cliche bombs compared to Conviction's demo.
.

well, it would be good if the structure of the story will change it's shape adding more character conflicts to explain Jadid's death, too bad devs dont give a *EDIT*.
I'm just think an easiest way to write this poor scene back to something making sense is let Jadid pull the pin of a kamikaze grenade,(if Jadid conceal carry one really wants to use it, it make sense Sam dont have anyway to stop it) and its more easier to show player whats happening than a pill, just a Boom, Sam dodged it, and the explosion gets attention of others, therefor the whole thing back on track while follow by same ridiculous UAV sequence as demo suggests. (aw... *EDIT* )


wait what? I didn't even really type down any filthy words.... its just a insinuation. I'm sorry if that would cause any problem.

[CoastalGirl]

Why the hell should people prefer the Coop and Deniable Ops otherwise? Because you have more control over your character there.

Well, the maps are awesome, too...

For me, though, it was also simply that those characters were new. I didn't already have a clear idea about what kind of people they were like I did with Sam, so Ubi could have taken them in any direction they wanted and it wouldn't have much of a difference.

After all the previous games and books, though, I knew Sam well. There are are little things here and there that don't line up with my exact image of him, obviously, but through DA, nearly all of the things that could have made me say "who is this guy, and what has he done with Sam?" are completely avoidable.

[Andre202]

Well, the maps are awesome, too...

Completely agree with you there. But the maps are also that awesome because they allowed you to do a lot of things. They are open, have alternative routes. I think that's a big point why we love these maps, especially the one from the DLC which added even more of the Sandbox feeling.

[SolidSage]

It's possible Sam didn't think the guy would kill himself. He did look shocked after that happened.

Sam did look shocked, like he was taken off guard by it. But at the same time, bit of a rookie error for someone as experienced as Sam to put the gun under dude's chin in the first place. Not a huge deal for me but it does sort of back track on the experience Sam is supposed to have a bit. He's been in those situations before, he knows these terrorist types can be a bit loony tunes

[Andre202]

I am telling you guys...push for the PIP idea..that ways we can get some comedy out of the bad writing

Wouldn't it make the bad writing even more obvious? Sounds like the writers are laughing out loud on their own script...

[shobhit7777777]

Wouldn't it make the bad writing even more obvious? Sounds like the writers are laughing out loud on their own script...

that's the point....Bad writing that takes itself too seriously is even worse than plain bad writing....self deprecating bad writing is actually good writing. I'm confused now....

I have to say though...after "playing" MGS for awhile....I have newfound respect and admiration for Conviction's writing team. I am sorry Jazz for badmouthing MGS but the writing and the CODEC is horrendous, for me. the gameplay however...... ****ing awesome! I cannot believe that I was missing out on this....Its a lot like MGS4 (rougher around the controls a bit) In terms of the stealth....and that's a great thing IMO.

A great blend of realistic elements blended into fun gameplay mechanics....a quasi realishistic (thanks Solidsage ) weird hybrid. Melding hyper realism with Japanese quirkiness.

[sameer_monier]

well I am playing GRFS SP now, Dansky worked on it too with another writer, and to be honest it is not bad, I like it, maybe it is just me, but again it isn't half bad.

though to be honest I expected different story when it comes to SC6, Guess I will have to wait and see.

[KAIZER_SOSA]

Rework the scene and give Jadid a cyanide pill (instead of shooting himself). He crunched down on the pill while Sam desperately tries to stop him digesting it, he dies anyway and the scene commences. That is a hell of a lot more believable that what was shown.

[Andre202]

Sam bursts into the room, eliminating 3 thugs, and immediately following, Jadid blows apart his computer screens to cover up information. As he turns towards Sam, Sam turns his sights on Jadid and shoots him as a method of disarmament....... Successfully I might add - Notice the pistol falls to the ground. Sam's gun to Jadid's chin is a way to hold him still, as to avoid Jadid fighting back. What do you expect? Sam to put his pistol away, and Jadid standing there like a good boy? This method is a "forced cooperation" technique. The fact that Jadid pulls the trigger on himself is the only risk involved with this type of maneuver. I completely disagree with people who say it is a rookie mistake. You have to be pretty skilled and confident to attempt a move like that on someone of such importance.

Everything Sam does is a risk. Some risks are kept at bay - but with hostage capture and interrogations, the personal risks are always higher.... a la Jadid.

The first issue I see is the narrative design. You cannot deal with the situation yourself. The game, the script of the game does force you into that situation. The only way to go into that room is through breaching in. Even Conviction showed off ways in it's demo to do it more stealthy. Conviction allowed at least to go to your target by your own. How about we get Jadid the way we got the first target? Sneak around take him as a human shield and use M&E on the three remaining targets? We are not able to do so and I don't think they will just remove that scene because it was motion captured and they payed for that.

Now to the second point, Jadid was shot by Sam so he drops the weapon. If you need the target alive, knock him out and bring his body to the exfiltration point. That's the best option a lone operative has I think. Why should you do the work you will be doing in the Paladin on the field while you are on the mission knowing very well you need the target alive? There is no need for the pistol afterwards, he can't defend himself that well anyway after being injured.

that's the point....Bad writing that takes itself too seriously is even worse than plain bad writing....self deprecating bad writing is actually good writing. I'm confused now....

The idea is funny, but well you know it would be somehow cheap to see the writers not taking their own script serious when actually (well at least I) expect them to have a serious story under the Tom Clancy brand. In Splinter Cell Sam was the one who made the serious story more enjoyable through his black humour. There was a nice balance.



I might also add that Sam doesn't care to cover up his face as a Commander of 4th Echelon who is working on the field at the same time. That's understandable in Conviction but not in Blacklist.