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Thread: SMG Flinch Recoil | Forums

  1. #1

    SMG Flinch Recoil

    The flinch/recoil caused by getting hit by one smg bullet is ridiculous and basically gives no chance of shooting back at any smg. Basically you're staring at the sky the entire time, I think this needs toned down a bit, anyone else?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Compassghost's Avatar
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    Agreed, flinch recoil is insane in this game. Arguably the weaker the round, the more your aim gets ruined as you continue to get shot. IMO, the weaker the gun, the less the flinch should be caused.


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    Division Agent Freelancer852's Avatar
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    Guess you've never been shot. It hurts and you react, even if it's in an armor plate.

    It seems fairly realistic to me.
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    Senior Member Compassghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer852 View Post
    Guess you've never been shot. It hurts and you react, even if it's in an armor plate.

    It seems fairly realistic to me.
    I have never been able to compensate on my Assault once getting hit by an SMG bullet. I literally look at the sky, even attempting to drag the mouse down. It's really sad =_=

    Imagine getting hit with 10 bullets, each one knocking your aim up about 10 degrees. It's not the question of the flinch, it's the question of the flinch vs damage. If you get shot by a sniper rifle, that's a lot of flinch, compared to a bunch of 9mm rounds that your plates are reducing to 10 damage...


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    Division Agent Freelancer852's Avatar
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    IRL a bullet is a bullet, human reaction to a non-penetrating or non-critical penetrating shot is about the same for every caliber to my knowledge.

    I've never experienced the drastic flinching you guys are talking about when playing.
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    Senior Member Compassghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer852 View Post
    IRL a bullet is a bullet, human reaction to a non-penetrating or non-critical penetrating shot is about the same for every caliber to my knowledge.

    I've never experienced the drastic flinching you guys are talking about when playing.
    It is different. It's the reason why beanbag shotguns are so effective at stopping people who are otherwise undeterred by bullets, i.e. on people who have had way too much PCP. Bullets are designed to go through people generally. When the round is stopped, the amount of force behind is is transferred to the person as opposed to being used as penetrating force to the person.

    The 9mm round fired by the MOD5 series has a third of the energy of a standard rifle bullets, so a full stop of the 9mm Parabellum is about 600J. Imagine a seriously forceful punch, but not enough to push you over.

    The 5.56 round fired by say, the Mk16 has a whopping 1600J, or 3 times the force of the 9mm. In real life, if your vest stops the bullet, you will fall over.

    The 7.62 round fired by Soviet rifles, if stopped is about 2100-2400J.

    Here's a video of a US medic getting shot by the 7.62 from a Dragunov. The vest stops the round, but he is knocked over by the sudden force.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-UNFSZ8VKU

    Basically, the bigger the round, the more force transferred to you, regardless of whether the round is stopped or not. If the round is stopped, IRL you will flop over from the rifle bullet, but the pistol calibers tend to act just like being punched in the gut.

    In regards to the flinching, I can pull a bunch of cam feeds from my Assault. There is literally no way I can hit a target once I get shot once, even compensating straight down with my mouse. By the time Im dead, I'm staring 45 degrees above center and still unable to compensate and way off balance.


  7. #7
    Division Agent Freelancer852's Avatar
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    Like I said, I'm talking about the human reaction and not the actual force of the round. That's what the camera movement in the game tries to emulate if what I'm seeing is any indication. You're not being knocked over so much as jarred around a lot from multiple impacts.

    When you're in a proper stance (see: operation like in the game), I doubt even a 7.62 would knock you down like in that video (which I hadn't seen before btw, great find). He was knocked over cause he was square-face to the shooter and was completely unaware. It might make you stumble, or knock you back a step, but it wouldn't knock you off your feet.

    I don't notice much of a difference when being shot from ANY fully automatic gun.
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    even if the vest absorbs the round, usually it's the shock of just getting shot that takes you down, not the bullet itself.

    ever see a deer get shot, spaz out and fall over just to get up and take off for another 50 yards?

  9. #9
    Division Agent Freelancer852's Avatar
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    Yes I've seen deer do that, a lot. I take two or three deer a year as well as Elk and Moose occasionally.

    Taking a round to the vest is usually still damaging to the body, you're gonna have a huge welt, maybe even some light bleeding, sometimes a cracked rib or dislocation. That's usually what puts people down if what they taught us in the Reserves was anything to go on. Sure shock plays a roll, but adrenaline will overtake shock if you're not actually hurt that bad.

    Anyway, this isn't about real life. I hate arguing about theoretical realistic scenarios like this online since everyone's an expert. This is about the game and how, apparently, SMG hits make you shake more than other gun hits.

    Are you sure it's not just because you're getting hit by multiple rounds OP? An Assault Rifle, Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle will all put you down faster than an SMG. Especially a starting SMG with little damage and no crit rating.
    Last edited by Freelancer852; 06-25-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Compassghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freelancer852 View Post
    Like I said, I'm talking about the human reaction and not the actual force of the round. That's what the camera movement in the game tries to emulate if what I'm seeing is any indication. You're not being knocked over so much as jarred around a lot from multiple impacts.

    When you're in a proper stance (see: operation like in the game), I doubt even a 7.62 would knock you down like in that video (which I hadn't seen before btw, great find). He was knocked over cause he was square-face to the shooter and was completely unaware. It might make you stumble, or knock you back a step, but it wouldn't knock you off your feet.

    I don't notice much of a difference when being shot from ANY fully automatic gun.
    Well, in actuality, when the vest fully stops the round, as it did in this case, the full force is transferred to the person. In this case, that's the 2100J or so I mentioned from a 7.62mm bullet.

    How much is 2100J? Well, that's the energy spent lifting 210kg 1 meter off the ground. On the other hand, the MP5 would be just 50kg 1 meter off the ground per shot.

    Obviously, imparting knockdown on any bullet injury would be the most hilariously disastrous game in the fun department, but seriously, if we were to impart realistic bullet physics and trauma in this game, every rifle bullet would act like a Blitz hit except for headshots, limb shots, and the M200, and every SMG bullet would do the up-recoil.

    Instead of that, reducing the SMG flinch recoil so that it is in line with damage it does. A sniper rifle bullet should make you flinch more than a single SMG bullet, but that isn't the case, and as a result, 3 10-damage rounds results in impossible aim compared to a single 100 damage round for my Assault.


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