Moral Choices | Forums

[Andre202]

I actually do mean the same as ShadowFox. He just can point it out a lot better then I am able to.

I also want to remind on Michael Ironside here, when it comes to cliches and so on: (Credits to The_5_Freedoms for writing that down)

Michael Ironside: Sam Fisher's genesis from the beginning… I think he was a little more pro-gung-ho in the first game, the first two games. They had a, a G.I. Joe kind of aspect about him, y'know. I didn't want that, I wanted somebody who was basically almost like… a weapon the government's used too many times. (A conversation between Shetland and Fisher is shown as an example.) I wanted that jaded kind of character. Sam Fisher's… could have been very two-dimensional, flat, cardboard, "FINISH HIM!" (Mimes ripping a guy's throat out). I didn't want to play this character like a game character, I didn't want him to be two-dimensional and be a cliché. Yet some of the writing has to go that way, it has to be explanatory, so it's been a nice little problem of trying to find the middle. Taking something that might have a cliché to it and trying to find some way to get under it and turn it and make it real.(Wilkes' death scene is shown as an example.) They've allowed me to play a lot of the lines and a lot of the scenarios to accommodate me and my sensitivity towards the character.

Yet, it seems like Conviction didn't even tried to find the middle way and Blacklist seems to follow it while it might be a bit better compared to Conviction.

[SolidSage]

So 4E isn't a real agency anymore but a combination of everything?
I was thinking they would get back to infiltration/information gathering while other organisations do actually the work to prevent them from attacking.
I am not sure how they would keep a secret organisation status if they do these stuffs.

I think 4E IS a real Agency still, but they have leveled up. They aren't like the NSA anymore, gathering intel and then outsourcing the wetwork to the CIA or whoever. Everything is of the highest classified level, it goes from the Prez to Sam's desk.
If anything, 4E is more of a true SplinterCell agency now than they ever were. Judge, Jury and Executioner.

@Shadowfox
"Yes but Maxime said that in the Blacklist it's about getting to them before they unleash the Armageddon. other SC's were about gathering intel to find out who was behind stuff and what their plans were.
It's like the difference between trying to deter Nuclear Proliferation and Intercepting a plane that is aimed at the pentagon. IMO."

[Andre202]

I think 4E IS a real Agency still, but they have leveled up. They aren't like the NSA anymore, gathering intel and then outsourcing the wetwork to the CIA or whoever. Everything is of the highest classified level, it goes from the Prez to Sam's desk.
If anything, 4E is more of a true SplinterCell agency now than they ever were. Judge, Jury and Executioner.

I actually don't agree that this seems to be a true agency now. In previous games you had the feeling you are not one guy who is rescuing the world but there are a lot more of them who help to prevent the attacks on the USA or to fight back. You are just as the others an important part in this task. You did number yourself what they are doing which seems to be pretty much everything. The Agency before, 3E, did actually the exact thing when it comes to "getting to them before they unleash the Armageddon". Because gathering information comes first before you are the Judge, Jury and Executioner. You can't be them without having any information gathered before and that's what the agencies were standing for. Other then that Lambert was also in contact with the president, this shouldn't be a surprise when Sam is the leader.

[MadamTampini]

The Agency before, 3E, did actually the exact thing when it comes to "getting to them before they unleash the Armageddon". Because gathering information comes first before you are the Judge, Jury and Executioner. You can't be them without having any information gathered before and that's what the agencies were standing for.

I really like this sentiment, it is true to Splinter Cell.

[sameer_monier]

^^ Andre: Sorry to break it to ya, but this isn't Lambert Echelon anymore, The Same President thought 3rd Echelon was useless and decided to shut it down, it seems The President want action, not intel
So Sam go in, collect info, use them, kill the responsible people, and stop whatever may happen, all by yourself. :P

joking haha

But from a design point of view, with Ubi wanting to make Sam Fisher an Immortal Icon, they would want to make him a Super-Hero too, they would want him to be the one and only badazz that can stop whatever may happen, I am starting to doubt that we will see any cross over between TC titles anymore.

[SolidSage]

Well the intel gathering has been happening since Conviction. I don't know where Grim got it all from but she was obviously on the case while Sam was off the reservation. I see 4E in Blacklist as ALREADY having most of the intel on the Meggido like entity and now they are tasked with stopping them.
I also think the team, Agency is the wrong word, are more prevalent now. It's not some encouraging words from Lambert and then Grim in the headset, this time the team is on the Plane, which is likely very close to the site Sam is going to infiltrate.
His Cell/Team/4E will be more a part of the operation than ever.

Definitely less of a one man show than it's ever been.

I mean, in all honesty, 3E turning into the Agency we saw in SCC was the deviation from the original concept wasn't it?

[LitLikeABrothel]

I think I need to remind you all that Third Echelon was part of the NSA. It was a super secret sub division that, officially, didn't exist. That's what Splinter Cell means, a "cell" that is "splintered" from a larger organisation, in this case the NSA. Conviction kind of threw that out the window when Ubisoft decided to give Third Echelon a huge HQ in the middle of Washington DC.

[bluewolf042000]

Well I can't speak for the interrogations because none of us have seen it yet. But I do get the need for special extreme actions to be taken given the urgency of the situation. And they ARE giving us a choice at least. Everything else is just overthinking something in a videogame too much.

[CamberGreber]

Well the intel gathering has been happening since Conviction. I don't know where Grim got it all from but she was obviously on the case while Sam was off the reservation. I see 4E in Blacklist as ALREADY having most of the intel on the Meggido like entity and now they are tasked with stopping them.
I also think the team, Agency is the wrong word, are more prevalent now. It's not some encouraging words from Lambert and then Grim in the headset, this time the team is on the Plane, which is likely very close to the site Sam is going to infiltrate.
His Cell/Team/4E will be more a part of the operation than ever.

Definitely less of a one man show than it's ever been.

I mean, in all honesty, 3E turning into the Agency we saw in SCC was the deviation from the original concept wasn't it?

How does the Proximity to the Mission Location make the team more of a part of the operation.
There still communicating in his ear like before the only difference is Sam has a ridiculous amount of roles to play which make this whole turn feel even more Unrealistic.

This does not feel like a Tom Clancy game what so ever anymore.

[CamberGreber]

I think I need to remind you all that Third Echelon was part of the NSA. It was a super secret sub division that, officially, didn't exist. That's what Splinter Cell means, a "cell" that is "splintered" from a larger organisation, in this case the NSA. Conviction kind of threw that out the window when Ubisoft decided to give Third Echelon a huge HQ in the middle of Washington DC.

Thats right.