Speculation time: The Crew of Fourth Echelon | Forums

[Daedalus_89]

That's the thing. There's a bit of a James Bond element, in that Fisher has always had these gadgets and a seemingly infinite amount of resources that can be pulled together at the last minute.
But they've always been able to do it in a believable way, pre-Conviction.
Past villains like Suhadi Sudano and Nikoladze were a bit cliche, but they were still convincing in their own ways. There was nothing in me that was willing to suspend my disbelief for Reed, the moment I saw him turn around and shoot the pilot that brought Fisher to Price Airfield.
I mean, okay. Maybe he didn't want outsiders knowing about Fisher, but why make a show of it in front of Sam and Grim? Why not have someone break his neck and have him suffer from a tragic "car accident?"
Then there's the obnoxious monologuing I mentioned before. And the freaking trench coat to top it all off.
He was pure Hollywood. Whereas past villains were cliche but appropriate in the setting. That's the difference.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Yes, exactly. Reed was Reediculous. The rest, when you pull things apart have some silly things but when mixed with everything else, just FELT right.

[The_5_Freedoms]

I think they should have explored the relationship between Reed and Fisher a lot more, particularly pre-Conviction because they obviously had a major falling-out.

[hamster616]

I've been thinking about the character of Charlie Cole. Is it even confirmed that the character will be a man? It's very possible that Charlie could be a woman. She could be Grim ten years ago. The person who joked around with Sam more than Lambert or Redding.

I'd like to see Redding return. He was just sort of there then disappeared. It's a shame because I liked him more than Wilkes and Brunton. Granted Wilkes wasn't in it for very long but Brunton kind of annoyed me.

One more thing... was it ever really confirmed that Lambert was in fact killed by Sam. I know there was three instances in Conviction that sort of confirmed it but it wasn't exactly concrete. Vic Coste telling the Black Arrow mercs that Sam shot Lambert, the flashbacks in the elevator in Third Echelon and Sam telling Grim to ask Lambert for help in the White House.

Coste could've said that to put the frighteners on the mercenaries. Sort of a way to make them scared of Sam. He killed his best friend so he won't hesitate to kill you type of thing. The flashbacks could've been Sam remembering the things he's done. You see him shoot Lambert but that's really it. You don't see the aftermath of it. Sam telling Grim to ask Lambert could be his way of telling her he's done all he can do for his country and that includes killing his best friend.

I think it would have been better if Sam had actually confirmed it himself. Maybe at the airfield. He could tell Grim that the hardest decision he has ever made was pulling the trigger and then go on to say he checked Lambert's vitals to make sure he wasn't suffering. I guess the writers thought they should leave it open ended.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I've been thinking about the character of Charlie Cole. Is it even confirmed that the character will be a man? It's very possible that Charlie could be a woman. She could be Grim ten years ago. The person who joked around with Sam more than Lambert or Redding.

I'd like to see Redding return. He was just sort of there then disappeared. It's a shame because I liked him more than Wilkes and Brunton. Granted Wilkes wasn't in it for very long but Brunton kind of annoyed me.

One more thing... was it ever really confirmed that Lambert was in fact killed by Sam. I know there was three instances in Conviction that sort of confirmed it but it wasn't exactly concrete. Vic Coste telling the Black Arrow mercs that Sam shot Lambert, the flashbacks in the elevator in Third Echelon and Sam telling Grim to ask Lambert for help in the White House.

Coste could've said that to put the frighteners on the mercenaries. Sort of a way to make them scared of Sam. He killed his best friend so he won't hesitate to kill you type of thing. The flashbacks could've been Sam remembering the things he's done. You see him shoot Lambert but that's really it. You don't see the aftermath of it. Sam telling Grim to ask Lambert could be his way of telling her he's done all he can do for his country and that includes killing his best friend.

I think it would have been better if Sam had actually confirmed it himself. Maybe at the airfield. He could tell Grim that the hardest decision he has ever made was pulling the trigger and then go on to say he checked Lambert's vitals to make sure he wasn't suffering. I guess the writers thought they should leave it open ended.

I dont think its very open ended....

[SolidSage]

Grim:

Don't know if you guys resolved it yet but to me it seems that she not only proved her loyalty to Echelon in SCC, by taking huge personal risks, working in the field, and helping Sam finish the job at the end. But she is probably also on good terms with the President like Sam, seeing as she was just as responsible for Her rescue as Sam was. Well more so in fact, since she managed to get Sam recruited to the cause.
I wouldn't be surprised if the President made her inclusion in the 4E program mandatory, whether Sam liked it or not. Personally though, as Sam, I would realize that Grim had the perfect opportunity to betray or kill me and didn't. And at least he KNOWS that she may lie to him. That's better than NOT KNOWING whether someone may or may not betray you.
Also, Lambert was the Director when all that mess went down with Sam's Daughter, not Grim, she remained loyal to Lambert, just as Sam would have. Granted, he wasn't into the deception but he does work on a different side of the desk.

Grim is IN in my book. She's the last Legacy character that's been through it all with Sam (right?), she NEEDS to be there.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Grim is definitely there though Sage....Is anyone disputing that? I'm confused lol

[The_5_Freedoms]

There was nothing in me that was willing to suspend my disbelief for Reed, the moment I saw him turn around and shoot the pilot that brought Fisher to Price Airfield.
I mean, okay. Maybe he didn't want outsiders knowing about Fisher, but why make a show of it in front of Sam and Grim?

Reed shot the pilot because he asked for gas money.

[Daedalus_89]

Grim:

Don't know if you guys resolved it yet but to me it seems that she not only proved her loyalty to Echelon in SCC, by taking huge personal risks, working in the field, and helping Sam finish the job at the end. But she is probably also on good terms with the President like Sam, seeing as she was just as responsible for Her rescue as Sam was. Well more so in fact, since she managed to get Sam recruited to the cause.
I wouldn't be surprised if the President made her inclusion in the 4E program mandatory, whether Sam liked it or not. Personally though, as Sam, I would realize that Grim had the perfect opportunity to betray or kill me and didn't. And at least he KNOWS that she may lie to him. That's better than NOT KNOWING whether someone may or may not betray you.
Also, Lambert was the Director when all that mess went down with Sam's Daughter, not Grim, she remained loyal to Lambert, just as Sam would have. Granted, he wasn't into the deception but he does work on a different side of the desk.

Grim is IN in my book. She's the last Legacy character that's been through it all with Sam (right?), she NEEDS to be there.

I got curious about how Sam interacted with Grim beyond his initial anger at the airfield, so I played through the game again.
Sam's actually pretty cooperative on the phone with Grim throughout the whole White House ordeal. So I suppose I could see a return to at least a professional relationship.
But I could also see him viewing Lambert and Grim-by-association's betrayal as something beyond the pale.
Lambert wasn't just "killing" Sarah for the altruistic reason of saving her life. He said it himself on the recording; that he had also done it to get Sam back in the game, for Third Echelon's purposes.

I don't think he'll ever completely forgive Grim, and I would be surprised if their relationship went back to normal. I could see a little banter back and forth happening, but not like the way it used to be.

[Daedalus_89]

Reed shot the pilot because he asked for gas money.

That seems a bit excessive and cartoonish, don't you think?
Besides, according to the conversation between him and another while Fisher was being carted in, he'd already been promised recompense. That couldn't have been news to Reed.
I don't think gas money is really the reason. I think he was planning to kill the pilot anyways. The inquiry about gas money probably just reminded him of that fact.