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Thread: Patrick Redding Indepth Stealth Interview with SneakyBastards | Forums

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  1. #51
    Senior Member KenTWOu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaRuTo View Post
    Chaos Theory is harmed by the ubiquitous darkness. I do not believe and I never thought that shadow is something that helps Splinter Cell series. On the contrary, I believe that the game is because of this very childish. For me and my mate, the best example of stealth-action game is a Double Agent Xbox360/PS3/PC. Where it should be dark, is dark. Where the so-called boundary begins. human living space, the environment doesn't look like a **** basement. You have to real s-n-e-a-k-y. Don't stand in the shadow. Besides, the proposed shadow - a change of contrast in areas without lighting was very much in order. In fact, the human eye is able to do, so even if the area is very soft light source.
    I think you will like this game:

    Dishonored’s shadows are never dark enough that the player completely disappears into them. Garrett could have a guard walk inches past his nose if it was pitch black; the same cannot happen here...

    “We’re big, big fans of Thief. But in Thief, at some point you had to accept that hey, you know what, I’m invisible in the shadow even if it’s a little weird for the characters not to see me. And we tried doing playtests and felt that a lot of people were actually not sharing that. They were like, that’s kind of weird, they’re coming close to you and the NPC doesn’t see me – how come I’m invisible? Is the NPC stupid?”

    “So then we went back to the whiteboard and asked, how can we fix that? And we thought of this interesting way where like, the further away you are, the more light matters. And so it kind of addresses that paradox that exists in Thief.”
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  2. #52
    Senior Member JaRuTo's Avatar
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    and rightly so, I'll be watching this game and Blacklist. Thanks.
    Redding also good that it understands that the greatest darkness doesn't overshadow anyone if you are standing close to the form which looks in your direction.
    Finally! It's about time to change that.
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    If you're looking something different from Splinter Cell videos, (last my project was called Tactical Espionage from Chaos Theory - advanced ghost style), visit my fansite channel at this address: http://www.youtube.com/user/jaruto7?feature=mhee

    Our ideas should serve as an inspiration for Ubisoft Toronto with new and innovative features in the right direction for next SC games: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...e-in-Blacklist
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  3. #53
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    The Shadow System needs to be binary. The detection doesn't.

    You are either hidden in a dark pool of shadow or you're exposed. Current gen is not smart enough to simulate silhouette camouflaging and AI visual detection. Until then the Conviction system is most accurate. What it needs is a 'Suspicious' zone...a very short amount of time when the AI suspects movement and that to in the peripheral vision.

    AI should be able to detect you real quick.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member harbi-117's Avatar
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    Great interview, thanks for the link Sameer

    Binary stealth is back... *sigh* I knew it... it's not coming back... ever
    & I don't like it when the A.I got only two states (alerted / not-alerted) I want the middle layer too (suspicious state)
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  5. #55
    Senior Member mateus99's Avatar
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    did you guys see the new teaser for thief 4 (could be a fake)

    The more stealth games (hitman,dishonored,) coming out the better
    Anyhow its great to hear more from this game.I like thief the only think i dont like about the games is the story and the mosters.
    i just dont like that kind of stuff in a stealth game
    Last edited by mateus99; 06-14-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Andre202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeySoldier14 View Post
    I think the best thing they can do with the binary system now that they have reverted back to the light indicator is to simply just add more indication to it for the player. It's a bit difficult to tell from the Blacklist demo but if it's anything like Double Agent, here's an example of a way to do so.


    DETECTED; MUST LOSE LINE OF SIGHT (LoS) OR KILL ENEMY TO END DETECTION. LAST KNOWN POSITION (LKP) IS SHOWN IF LoS IS LOSSED.

    SEEN FROM DISTANCE; MUST QUICKLY DISAPPEAR TO AVOID DETECTION. IF SUCCESSFUL, LKP IS SHOWN & THE ENEMY INVESTIGATES.

    VISIBLE; FIND COVER.

    SEMI VISIBLE/HIDDEN; FIND BETTER COVER. MORE DIFFICULT FOR ENEMIES TO SEE PLAYER COMPARED TO VISIBLE.

    HIDDEN; GHOST.


    But of course, who knows how their A.I. works and what it's based on this time around.
    If you choose to have indicators to show the borders the system isn't binary anymore (yours isn't binary anymore). You have three conditions here and every condition needs to make sure it shows that you are about to break the border to another condition. Binary, in Java you would use boolean for that and with boolean you won't be able to show these borders it allows only for two conditions, but you need at least three conditions. The detection circle used in Conviction and Blacklist which warned you if you are about to be detected are also indicators and conditions. A binary system just cannot do it, because it only asks right or wrong. On, Off, but nothing more. The eyes don't work this way just as the Stealth System cannot work this way.

    The meter was there to show these borders as ShadowFox pointed it out. The binary system itself is flawed because it doesn't take the real indentification of an intruder into consideration. When you use that real cool idea Shobhit suggested with the AI looking at you when you are about to break the borders. That's still not binary. If he doesn't see you, you are hidden, when he looks at you, he notice something but that doesn't mean at all that he detected you. These are already two conditions of the Stealth system and we didn't add, "investigation" known from older games and the condition "detected".

    Knot3D even suggested to be able to play with the AI through the Stealth system. You would need even more conditions for that.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member michaelanjello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre202 View Post
    If you choose to have indicators to show the borders the system isn't binary anymore (yours isn't binary anymore). You have three conditions here and every condition needs to make sure it shows that you are about to break the border to another condition. Binary, in Java you would use boolean for that and with boolean you won't be able to show these borders it allows only for two conditions, but you need at least three conditions. The detection circle used in Conviction and Blacklist which warned you if you are about to be detected are also indicators and conditions. A binary system just cannot do it, because it only asks right or wrong. On, Off, but nothing more. The eyes don't work this way just as the Stealth System cannot work this way.

    The meter was there to show these borders as ShadowFox pointed it out. The binary system itself is flawed because it doesn't take the real indentification of an intruder into consideration. When you use that real cool idea Shobhit suggested with the AI looking at you when you are about to break the borders. That's still not binary. If he doesn't see you, you are hidden, when he looks at you, he notice something but that doesn't mean at all that he detected you. These are already two conditions of the Stealth system and we didn't add, "investigation" known from older games and the condition "detected".

    Knot3D even suggested to be able to play with the AI through the Stealth system. You would need even more conditions for that.
    Im not sure if you guys realized this, but me and sameer noticed that theres only 2 states when it comes to light and shadow detection. If youre in light, the green light on youre back, opsat and goggles doesnt glow, while if youre in darkness it does. Thats what I see im t he demo, and it even makes sense because its realistic. A light would glow in the dark.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member Andre202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelanjello View Post
    Im not sure if you guys realized this, but me and sameer noticed that theres only 2 states when it comes to light and shadow detection. If youre in light, the green light on youre back, opsat and goggles doesnt glow, while if youre in darkness it does. Thats what I see im t he demo, and it even makes sense because its realistic. A light would glow in the dark.
    I was explaining why the binary system just doesn't work. The light on your back glows, now you need an indicator to know when you are not really hidden. When you are at the borders you need to know that. This isn't possible with a binary system. You can sure as hell say hidden is one condition, but not hidden has much more conditions and more aspects you need to take into consideration. If you break the notice border you go back to hidden to avoid that you will break another border which leads to you being detected as an intruder and not something else.
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  9. #59
    I remember playing another game with a binary shadow system... it was a flash game on Newgrounds.

    The shadow system shouldn't be binary. It just shouldn't. What Double Agent Xbox 360 and Conviction did was a regression, not a progression. Although, Conviction can be excused because Old Conviction apparently did not have a system for using shadows to hide in.

    It's like the Black and White when you enter the shadows. It sounds great on paper, but once you get playing you realise just how awkward and shallow it is, especially in the (lack of) transition from being completely hidden to completely visible.

    Also, being able to remain completely hidden from enemies in the shadow of a patio table umbrella is just ridiculous.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member Andre202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_5_Freedoms View Post
    It's like the Black and White when you enter the shadows. It sounds great on paper, but once you get playing you realise just how awkward and shallow it is, especially in the (lack of) transition from being completely hidden to completely visible.
    Exactly!

    Human Eye works this way:




    Not like this:
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