Should the devs go back to the drawing board? | Forums

[mistahkmak]

1) yes

2) no

3) need more time/info to decide


While personally I think that the blacklist project should be restarted, I do not think my lone opinion is enough to justify this. I ask the community this question. What made the 07 conviction get thrown away? If it was fan disapproval, is blacklist/conviction close to that level of negative feedback that 07 conviction had? and If it was up to you, would you have the development team go back to the drawing board?

When answering the poll try to keep biases away such as, "it has been so long since we have had a new splinter cell, I don't care what the game is like." Answer on your merits of what you would like to see in a splinter cell game.

Keep in mind 07 conviction had less gameplay info out when it was scrapped



This poll is different than the one asking if you will buy the game, a number of people that will buy the game will do so out of brand loyalty or svm or coop.

[sgt_kraken]

Tbh theres alot of potetial still in the franchise that devs look like they may be wasting. I for one would love to play as sarah fischer, with Sam the doting father over the radio and Grim the awkward mother figure or something. Itd make more sense too, how many 50 year olds do you know who can move like that. Youd be hard pressed to see 20-somethings kicking that much arse. Im sure ubi could take a chance on another strong female lead, and im hoping that at least we'll see the option of no-kill pure stealth to get through missions.

[nster81]

Yes and no. Most people seem to want Sam sidelined for a new field agent anyway, not to mention, they should implement some actual light/shadow mechanics in my opinion.

[mistahkmak]

Tbh theres alot of potetial still in the franchise that devs look like they may be wasting. I for one would love to play as sarah fischer, with Sam the doting father over the radio and Grim the awkward mother figure or something. Itd make more sense too, how many 50 year olds do you know who can move like that. Youd be hard pressed to see 20-somethings kicking that much arse. Im sure ubi could take a chance on another strong female lead, and im hoping that at least we'll see the option of no-kill pure stealth to get through missions.

thats a creative thought, but I doubt sam would want his only remaining family member continuing the role he did which pretty much destroyed his life. Sarah also has no combat experience what so ever.

[DeafAtheist]

Hobo Sam Conviction build had NO light & shadow stealth, no gadgets, no goggles. It lacked ANYTHING one could conceivably associate with the Splinter Cell franchise except Sam Fisher as a character.

While I didn't really see anything stealthy in the E3 gameplay demo I see a LOT more to the it that identifies it to me as a Splinter Cell game than Hobo Sam Conviction did. Sam back in his Splinter Cell "uniform", goggles, gadgets (including sticky shocker and knife)

So, no. I don't think the development team needs to restart the project at all, and I think even the implication that they should is disrespectful of the work they put into it so far. I didn't come on the boards here until after the final build for Conviction was shown so I wasn't one of the fans that complained about the original build. I had my concerns about it though.

The funny thing here is that I see a lot of hardcore fans in here giving Conviction a fairly high rating in the other thread and even though it's not Splinter Cell as we have grown accustomed to people enjoyed it... myself included. So it seems that Blacklist from what we see in the E3 demo is more of the same, but Sam's knife is back and the sticky shocker is back. Those 2 things alone make it look a little better to me than Conviction was. Ubisoft has said that non-lethal takedowns were possible as long as Sam doesn't have his knife out. I'll take their word for it although they said pretty much the same thing about Conviction (non-lethal with no gun out) which turned out to be false. I played through Conviction only using mostly melee takedowns without my gun out and I had Sam snapping necks and stuff. That's hardly non-lethal. But I digress. The development team also says there is plenty of stealth in the game too. Once again another thing that was told to us regarding Conviction before it was released but that wasn't exactly true either, at least not in the sense that we expected it and hoped it to be.

So yeah, I'll admit I'm still a bit skeptical based on what I've seen and comparing what I've heard about Blacklist to what was told to us about Conviction and it does feel like we're being told similar stuff. So it does remain to seen. However I remain cautiously optimistic. I will buy Blacklist even if it hypothetically looks exactly like the E3 demo all the way through it, but I am hoping that is not the case.

[JaRuTo]

I played through Conviction only using mostly melee takedowns without my gun out and I had Sam snapping necks and stuff. That's hardly non-lethal. But I digress. The development team also says there is plenty of stealth in the game too. Once again another thing that was told to us regarding Conviction before it was released but that wasn't exactly true either, at least not in the sense that we expected it and hoped it to be.

Attacking unarmed melee in Conviction is not non-lethal because their bodies will never get up and you don't see how to breathe, so the system recognizes them as killed body.

[DeafAtheist]

Attacking unarmed melee in Conviction is not non-lethal because their bodies will never get up and you don't see how to breathe, so the system recognizes them as killed body.

Right, but before Conviction came out they said that unarmed takedowns were non-lethal. They played it off like they were just unconscious but stayed down for "gameplay reasons" or whatever. I don't remember exactly how they put it but my point is they told us that unarmed takedowns in Conviction were non-lethal.

I would really like to see true non-lethal takedowns in Blacklist which means that if the body is found by another guard the unconscious body can be woken back up again. But I doubt the game will recognize the difference between a lethal and non-lethal takedown in Blacklist and they will stay down even "non-lethal" takedowns like they did in Conviction. I think the reason they could be woken back up in the classic games is because a non-lethal takedown had it's own button. So the game could recognize that if the guard was put down with that button instead of the other button it could be woken back up by another guard. But I don't see a game being coded so that it can tell the difference between Sam having his knife out or not. It feel like it will be the same way it was in Conviction where no matter what you do the guard is down permanently and cannot be woken back up by another guard if the body is found. I hope Ubisoft proves me wrong on this.

[Yabab_2]

No, absolutely not. Not at this point at least - one of the things I've come to appreciate in the last years is Maxime Beland's influence on the franchise. At first I thought that was a bad thing, but he made Conviction much more accessible to people and that brought Splinter Cell the attention it deserves, perhaps even saving the franchise from extinction. It's not a simple task to keep a game alive for so much time. Ever since Double Agent the franchise had been showing signs of decay.

With Conviction the possibility of Sam finding out more about his daughter's murder provided a plausible context for his sudden shift in behavior, which supported the more active gameplay, as opposed to the passive one from the previous games. Conviction was also rather rushed, I've myself stated multiple times that trying to go stealth in Conviction is like trying to dig a hole with a fork - you may get there, but you're bound to suicide yourself from frustration first, but Blacklist is showing signs of being a more complete experience.

Carrying bodies is back, which is a key mechanic from the previous games and if it is there, you can bet it affects gameplay - the only obvious way this could happen is having to move bodies to keep alarms from being raised. So far it seems Blacklist will be the most accessible Splinter Cell to date. It will enable stealth fans to go back to the roots and play the game as they know and love it: completely silent, completely invisible - except for the set-pieces, while also allowing less patient or enthusiastic fans to breeze through the game using mechanics such as Mark & Execute, Cover-to-Cover and others. This is something I'm completely fine with.

Something the vast majority of the 'hardcore' and old fans of the series seem to be is intolerant of any change. Even now that the game's promising to support the gameplay style of their choice they still take offense and threaten to not buy the game, not because they can't play the way they want - but because other people can still play the same game the way they don't want. Which is pretty insane! And this is not to say that Blacklist will be Chaos Theory 2.0 - there are going to be restraints.

The one thing I'm openly against is the change in actors, but this is something which is nearly completely detached from the gameplay experience. Though Ubisoft and Beland himself have expressed their will to turn Sam Fisher into an icon - so that kids being born today will play or watch Fisher in action in the future. This is something I believe detracts from the character - but with that in mind Blacklist is as good as an installment as any to switch actors given that Ironside will be unable to perform the role at some point in the future. Instead I'd rather have the icon of a Splinter Cell, with a different agent altogether once they were done with the character, much like the Bourne Legacy movie is doing. But that's something which only the heads of Ubisoft have the say.

So, no. I don't believe they should change anything at this point - nor do I believe I'll ever think they do.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

We should have this poll AFTER we see more gameplay. If they can't show off any good, meaningful stealth to us...then yes -- change it, but if they can, then no they shouldn't restart.

[mistahkmak]

Hobo Sam Conviction build had NO light & shadow stealth, no gadgets, no goggles. It lacked ANYTHING one could conceivably associate with the Splinter Cell franchise except Sam Fisher as a character.

While I didn't really see anything stealthy in the E3 gameplay demo I see a LOT more to the it that identifies it to me as a Splinter Cell game than Hobo Sam Conviction did. Sam back in his Splinter Cell "uniform", goggles, gadgets (including sticky shocker and knife)


.

The 07 conviction build still looked like it had a splinter cellish feel (more so than bl) blending in, avoiding guards, utilizing distractions (pretty stealth heavy+ some of sams abilities from double agent) plus this has just a bit more information on this one. I could say many reasons why this one lacks more of a splinter cellish feel from the limited gameplay we have than 07 conviction

Why does this thread even exist? .

because I have the freedom of speech, freedom of worship, from want, from fear. These rights would not exist without a fifth, the right to protect all other freedoms by whatever means necessary.