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  1. #1431
    Senior Member ExcellerLT's Avatar
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    Im pritty confused where is the main SvM thread because comments are all over the place right now.

    So if i may, i will do a small comparison about SvM, if im wrong at some point, tell me

    So
    Difference between Classic and Blacklist SvM modes:
    Classic:
    2v2
    No costumizeable gear
    No lethal weapons
    Dark envromnent

    Blacklist:
    4v4
    Costumizeable gear
    Lethal weapons
    bright environment
    costum classes

    Well i think when they talked in the interview that bring something for a new players in Blacklist mode, custumization. Well in my opinion it wount hurt if you could cosmeticly costumize your spy or merc outfit. It wount hurt to implement this in the classic mode

    SvM charakters:

    Merc
    Heavy armor
    good at long range combat
    gadgets for search of spies
    vulnurable in close combat

    Spy
    Agility, fast movement
    good at CQC
    gadgets for environmental awareness
    vulnurable at long range combat

    So as i see it dev's want you to study your advantages as a Merc and as a Spy. Theres no perfect gadget and gear selection, every player is good at what he does, he preforms his own style. I really like that the game is based on skill rather than who has the higher level. Im really excited that Ghunter is back for this, because he has that vision wich SvM need to succeed. Glad you're back. I mean it is good to bring old SC devs on the table and i think SP and COOP would find use for it too, i should find more info on other modes director's before stating something about that, so thats it.

    If i made some mistakes, please correct me. As i said my assumptions might be wrong because yesterday was too much info than i can absorb right now.

    EDIT: So as i see it Blacklist mode compared with Classic is much harder for SvM vets to adapt.
    Last edited by ExcellerLT; 05-08-2013 at 10:28 AM.

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  2. #1432
    Senior Member xRaDRoacHx's Avatar
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    You're forgetting infinite lifes for both modes.
    #UbiNeedsToChange

    Petition against Uplay for Steam games: http://www.change.org/p/ubisoft-stop...on-steam-games

    Spoiler: 


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  3. #1433
    Senior Member ExcellerLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xRaDRoacHx View Post
    You're forgetting infinite lifes for both modes.
    Oh yeah, totally forgot. I hope this thing will be costumizable.
    And also theres no confomation for bots
    And also Zack didnt answered about their plans for the game after launch, launch support etc
    But thats ok, i think more answers will come in time

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  4. #1434
    I like new idea of SvM, but "details, details...". For me some things will make this game without a depth, no like a CT had. For example:

    1. Terminals that reset they hack status, means you need to focus on one of them, you can't play cat & mouse with merc - runing from one to other
    2. Spy does'nt have any attack that could stun/sleep merc - all of they moves is only for killing, even when you jump on him, and of course spy can't grab merc and hold untill other spy finnish hacking.
    3. Infinite lives make that people may not focus on stealth and stay alive, but they will do aggresive state, what they care in few sec they will reborn with another chance, and over again.
    4. There is only proximity mine, that seems can be set up only on floor, probably you can't attach them to objects or walls - more less posibilites, spys need look out only for floors, there areny any lasers or alarms. Make game more easylier.
    5. Ealier merc had Sniper Rifle for headshots, and Spy had break neck that can be preform only from behind, what in some case shows how player is skilled, now there is only instant-grab/kills, no matter how skilled or not you are - its much more easylier, you don't need think too much how hunt oppnent down, but you just run and kill it. And only one thing what you realy matter is just don't be spoted / be faster.
    6. New idea of hacking is a hybrid of Hack objectives and seting a bomb - at this point i don't know if i like it.
    7. Preform "Death from above" don't need any precision and skill, you just push button..

    And great things:
    - There are no more tazer spam, spy can only preform one shot and then reload crossbow
    - Merc also can make instant-grabs/kills so spy need be careful when he attack merc
    - If you will run merc will know exacly where you are, so better don't
    - Merc need to be very careful because they can be instant killed
    - spy is more agile and faster, thats good.

    How bad things could be easyli fixed:
    - Instant kills with knife should be posible only from behind and merc should get colimators for sniper kills
    - add posibility to place mine on every object, no matter if its floor or wall
    - add alarms to avoid spys aggresive state, so they should be more careful
    - time to rehack therminal should be long enough to give spy more flexibility
    - death from above should be activate when you properly fall on merc, not when you just push button to preform homming-action-kill
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  5. #1435
    Senior Member Aegis_Kleais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo View Post
    Honestly guys, you don't know what you're talking about. You can make all the suggestions you want, but I don't think any of you realize how insanely hard it is to balance an asymetrical game. There's a reason why no other developer has tried to recreate similar styled asymmetrical games... because its hard to do and it's extremely hard to do right.

    You can say that you want this and that, but without playing the game or even seeing 5 minutes of footage, you're just moaning for the sake of it.

    If you liked CT/PT Spies versus Mercs and thought Double Agent was a let down, just like I did, you're going to love this.

    There's nothing in this game that needs fixing.

    You're being overly nostalgic if you think that just rebooting CT SvM with new graphics and maps is going to cut the mustard today. As incredible as it was, there are a whole bunch of flaws in that game that needed to be addressed. Making the game accesible to new players by far is the most glaring.

    Trust me, this game is insanely stealthy and insanely tense, and it doesn't sacrifice any of the tactics and strategy that you're used to in the old version.

    It certainly is a different beast, because the game has been re-imagined along with the rest of Splinter Cell. The mechanics of winning are altered, but the experience and the atmosphere in the game remain true to the core of PT & CT.

    The same dude that designed PT's original SvM designed this game. It is essentially old skool SvM 2.0 designed by the same game designer and bunch of old skool SvM fans turned game developers.

    You may think that you know what the game needs, but you haven't played it. This dude invented the freaking game mode has upped the stakes significantly with this version.

    Listen very carefully to what he says in the Old versus New video. He talks about what the core of SvM is. It's not about being able to hack multiple objectives or any of the other bits and pieces you're talking about. These are all minor details that were used to balance the core of the old games.

    The core of SvM is that it's a stealth based asymmetrically balanced game where you have to outthink your opponent and use your teams distinct abilities to win.

    That's what has been delivered here. And it works like nothing else I have experienced.

    I have desperately longed for SvM to come back since it was bastardized in Double Agent. I have played no other multiplayer game more than I played PT/CT SvM. To this day it is the pinnacle of online gaming to me.

    I was pretty worried about how this game was going to turn out, but it is essentially a game changer.

    You can moan away if you want, but take it from a hardcore player - you all have a huge reason to be very excited.
    I understand where you're coming from. First and foremost, I GREATLY thank you for bringing this open Q&A to us. That shows excellent character and that you are very community-oriented. And I do understand that there is a general feeling of "don't knock it til you try it", but people don't need to experience something to have an opinion on it (ie, I never had an ice pick taken to my toenail, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it) Yeah, that would be more fair, and you're right in that a lot of CT vets were hoping for a complete 1:1 reboot, which the game is not. As fun as CT was, it was not very accessible to new players; but many games share this failure. (Think Counterstrike, newbies get insta-fragged before they can even leave spawn)

    That being said, the problem here is that you CAN'T speak for anyone but yourself. Personally, I'm glad to hear that you feel that the game is a worthy successor (and I am still amped to try it out myself), but you've basically told people that they will love it, even though there's a very good chance that these people will not like it at all since it isn't a reboot of the game mode.

    It's just hard to say one way or the other. If DA's SvM was 0 and CT's SvM was 100, this game seems to be hovering around the 70 level. There's a decent amount of what made CT's SvM great, but there is also a noticeable amount missing. We'll just have to put the game through its paces to see if that number adjusts. I think it's only normal as players who have NOT played the game mode yet, that all we have is speculation (and, thanks to you, some solid information on the game mechanics).
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  6. #1436
    Senior Member noodlenerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo View Post
    Honestly guys, you don't know what you're talking about. You can make all the suggestions you want, but I don't think any of you realize how insanely hard it is to balance an asymetrical game. There's a reason why no other developer has tried to recreate similar styled asymmetrical games... because its hard to do and it's extremely hard to do right.

    You can say that you want this and that, but without playing the game or even seeing 5 minutes of footage, you're just moaning for the sake of it.

    If you liked CT/PT Spies versus Mercs and thought Double Agent was a let down, just like I did, you're going to love this.

    There's nothing in this game that needs fixing.

    You're being overly nostalgic if you think that just rebooting CT SvM with new graphics and maps is going to cut the mustard today. As incredible as it was, there are a whole bunch of flaws in that game that needed to be addressed. Making the game accesible to new players by far is the most glaring.

    Trust me, this game is insanely stealthy and insanely tense, and it doesn't sacrifice any of the tactics and strategy that you're used to in the old version.

    It certainly is a different beast, because the game has been re-imagined along with the rest of Splinter Cell. The mechanics of winning are altered, but the experience and the atmosphere in the game remain true to the core of PT & CT.

    The same dude that designed PT's original SvM designed this game. It is essentially old skool SvM 2.0 designed by the same game designer and bunch of old skool SvM fans turned game developers.

    You may think that you know what the game needs, but you haven't played it. This dude invented the freaking game mode has upped the stakes significantly with this version.

    Listen very carefully to what he says in the Old versus New video. He talks about what the core of SvM is. It's not about being able to hack multiple objectives or any of the other bits and pieces you're talking about. These are all minor details that were used to balance the core of the old games.

    The core of SvM is that it's a stealth based asymmetrically balanced game where you have to outthink your opponent and use your teams distinct abilities to win.

    That's what has been delivered here. And it works like nothing else I have experienced.

    I have desperately longed for SvM to come back since it was bastardized in Double Agent. I have played no other multiplayer game more than I played PT/CT SvM. To this day it is the pinnacle of online gaming to me.

    I was pretty worried about how this game was going to turn out, but it is essentially a game changer.

    You can moan away if you want, but take it from a hardcore player - you all have a huge reason to be very excited.

    Can't wait. I'm so jelly it's not even funny.
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  7. #1437
    Senior Member Aegis_Kleais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo View Post
    Honestly guys, you don't know what you're talking about. You can make all the suggestions you want, but I don't think any of you realize how insanely hard it is to balance an asymetrical game. There's a reason why no other developer has tried to recreate similar styled asymmetrical games... because its hard to do and it's extremely hard to do right.

    You can say that you want this and that, but without playing the game or even seeing 5 minutes of footage, you're just moaning for the sake of it.

    If you liked CT/PT Spies versus Mercs and thought Double Agent was a let down, just like I did, you're going to love this.

    There's nothing in this game that needs fixing.

    You're being overly nostalgic if you think that just rebooting CT SvM with new graphics and maps is going to cut the mustard today. As incredible as it was, there are a whole bunch of flaws in that game that needed to be addressed. Making the game accesible to new players by far is the most glaring.

    Trust me, this game is insanely stealthy and insanely tense, and it doesn't sacrifice any of the tactics and strategy that you're used to in the old version.

    It certainly is a different beast, because the game has been re-imagined along with the rest of Splinter Cell. The mechanics of winning are altered, but the experience and the atmosphere in the game remain true to the core of PT & CT.

    The same dude that designed PT's original SvM designed this game. It is essentially old skool SvM 2.0 designed by the same game designer and bunch of old skool SvM fans turned game developers.

    You may think that you know what the game needs, but you haven't played it. This dude invented the freaking game mode has upped the stakes significantly with this version.

    Listen very carefully to what he says in the Old versus New video. He talks about what the core of SvM is. It's not about being able to hack multiple objectives or any of the other bits and pieces you're talking about. These are all minor details that were used to balance the core of the old games.

    The core of SvM is that it's a stealth based asymmetrically balanced game where you have to outthink your opponent and use your teams distinct abilities to win.

    That's what has been delivered here. And it works like nothing else I have experienced.

    I have desperately longed for SvM to come back since it was bastardized in Double Agent. I have played no other multiplayer game more than I played PT/CT SvM. To this day it is the pinnacle of online gaming to me.

    I was pretty worried about how this game was going to turn out, but it is essentially a game changer.

    You can moan away if you want, but take it from a hardcore player - you all have a huge reason to be very excited.
    Quote Originally Posted by ExcellerLT View Post
    Im pritty confused where is the main SvM thread because comments are all over the place right now.

    So if i may, i will do a small comparison about SvM, if im wrong at some point, tell me

    So
    Difference between Classic and Blacklist SvM modes:
    Classic:
    2v2
    No costumizeable gear
    No lethal weapons
    Dark envromnent

    Blacklist:
    4v4
    Costumizeable gear
    Lethal weapons
    bright environment
    costum classes

    Well i think when they talked in the interview that bring something for a new players in Blacklist mode, custumization. Well in my opinion it wount hurt if you could cosmeticly costumize your spy or merc outfit. It wount hurt to implement this in the classic mode

    SvM charakters:

    Merc
    Heavy armor
    good at long range combat
    gadgets for search of spies
    vulnurable in close combat

    Spy
    Agility, fast movement
    good at CQC
    gadgets for environmental awareness
    vulnurable at long range combat

    So as i see it dev's want you to study your advantages as a Merc and as a Spy. Theres no perfect gadget and gear selection, every player is good at what he does, he preforms his own style. I really like that the game is based on skill rather than who has the higher level. Im really excited that Ghunter is back for this, because he has that vision wich SvM need to succeed. Glad you're back. I mean it is good to bring old SC devs on the table and i think SP and COOP would find use for it too, i should find more info on other modes director's before stating something about that, so thats it.

    If i made some mistakes, please correct me. As i said my assumptions might be wrong because yesterday was too much info than i can absorb right now.

    EDIT: So as i see it Blacklist mode compared with Classic is much harder for SvM vets to adapt.
    Well, the Merc actually is as lethal as the Spy but to my knowledge, just doesn't have a DFA move (so he is lethal ONLY from ground-level) If you catch a Spy hanging on a ledge, give him room (to prevent the assist-kill jump) and just shoot at him (being prepared for him to drop down or climb back up) But it seems even in Classic, the Merc can insta-kill a Spy when in melee range.

    We've seen them Melee bash kill from the front, neck break from the back, grab a Spy from the side and gut him with a knife, sneak up on a Spy from behind and do a "ground pound", and even grab a Spy from the front, put a gun to his head and off him.
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  8. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegis_Kleais View Post
    Well, the Merc actually is as lethal as the Spy but to my knowledge, just doesn't have a DFA move (so he is lethal ONLY from ground-level) If you catch a Spy hanging on a ledge, give him room (to prevent the assist-kill jump) and just shoot at him (being prepared for him to drop down or climb back up) But it seems even in Classic, the Merc can insta-kill a Spy when in melee range.

    We've seen them Melee bash kill from the front, neck break from the back, grab a Spy from the side and gut him with a knife, sneak up on a Spy from behind and do a "ground pound", and even grab a Spy from the front, put a gun to his head and off him.
    And also knife to the chest.
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  9. #1439
    Senior Member oO_ShadowFox_Oo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegis_Kleais View Post
    I understand where you're coming from. First and foremost, I GREATLY thank you for bringing this open Q&A to us. That shows excellent character and that you are very community-oriented. And I do understand that there is a general feeling of "don't knock it til you try it", but people don't need to experience something to have an opinion on it (ie, I never had an ice pick taken to my toenail, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy it) Yeah, that would be more fair, and you're right in that a lot of CT vets were hoping for a complete 1:1 reboot, which the game is not. As fun as CT was, it was not very accessible to new players; but many games share this failure. (Think Counterstrike, newbies get insta-fragged before they can even leave spawn)

    That being said, the problem here is that you CAN'T speak for anyone but yourself. Personally, I'm glad to hear that you feel that the game is a worthy successor (and I am still amped to try it out myself), but you've basically told people that they will love it, even though there's a very good chance that these people will not like it at all since it isn't a reboot of the game mode.

    It's just hard to say one way or the other. If DA's SvM was 0 and CT's SvM was 100, this game seems to be hovering around the 70 level. There's a decent amount of what made CT's SvM great, but there is also a noticeable amount missing. We'll just have to put the game through its paces to see if that number adjusts. I think it's only normal as players who have NOT played the game mode yet, that all we have is speculation (and, thanks to you, some solid information on the game mechanics).
    Ok, so there were 16 of us who played the game on the day.

    Of those 16, about 12 were hard-core Splinter Cell SvM fans. From talking with them, pretty much all of them were CT/PT fans and thought that DA was a step in the wrong direction.

    Out of those 12 CT/PT vets, every single one of them loved it.

    That's a 100% successful conversion rate out of all of the CT/PT fans.

    So, I'm not speaking just about me. I'm talking about every CT/PT that was there.

    There is a very, very, very good chance that everyone will love it and a very small chance that you'll hate it.

    If you want to moan that the game is not like CT, go ahead - because you're right. Is it NOT exactly like CT and that is A GOOD THING.

    And the reason for that is because it IS a new game that manages to capture the same atmosphere & emotion that the original SvM experience was unique for, without bringing back all of the glaring design flaws from the old games like:

    - Spawn killing
    - Aggro spies
    - Buggy/laggy neck grabs
    - The insanely insurmountable divide between new players and vets
    - Players not wanting to switch teams
    - etc

    All of these huge flaws that eventually brought CT to it's knees have been designed right out of the game. And it is way better for it.

    "I play Splinter Cell...as Sam Fisher"
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  10. #1440
    Senior Member ExcellerLT's Avatar
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    Yeah i kind of agree with ShadowFox there is many people who complain too much about the game, it isnt release yet and also it is an evolution of SvM it wount be 1:1 reborn. As i mentioned in other thread, every game has to evolve, if you want fresh and enjoyable game. My expectations for SvM are really good, i think Blacklist will be in really high place in this year.

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