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  1. #1

    Proof that Blacklist/Conviction developers DO NOT like stealth gaming...

    Below is a list of quotes I gathered from various video and text interviews from the developers of Conviction and BlackList.

    If you believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that these guys are not "frustrated at playing a stealth game" then LET THEIR OWN WORDS tell you the truth.


    I will not add or subtract from their comments I will simply post word for word how they feel about Sam Fisher and the stealth gaming the fans have come to love before Conviction was released.



    "Andréane says- “We’re not using the shadow stealth as a constraint or as an obligation. You don’t have to hide because you might get shot or killed with an automatic game over."


    “Our creative director felt that waiting was not empowering. People would tell me you can stay in the shadows, leave your console and come back later and you still won’t get detected (in Chaos Theory)."


    "Go and Google Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, and look at the images. You're going to see some images of Sam, he looks as if he could be in the same world as Batman. He's wearing that ****ing wetsuit and he's super-built, and the rain and the goggles, and you look at him and you think he could be in the Batmobile with Batman."-Beland



    "Beland doesn't like green night-vision sequences in games and told me that Fisher's goggles aren't used for anything like that; just for sonar scans, which show enemy positions through wall"

    “I felt that stealth was getting a bit old,” proclaims Beland. “I want the player to feel like a panther


    "creative director Maxime Beland states over a sandwich in a café, “We wanted Splinter Cell: Conviction to be more about action"

    "We need to stop making games that are super hardcore," said Beland


    "Mechanics like “Last Known Position” and "Mark and Execute" are designed to work for computer AI, not for human players. For example, players can use the “Last Known Position” mechanic to set up flanking positions and ambushes on the computer AI. The same mechanic won’t be as effective on human players."-developer comments

    Beland explained to Edge. "Stealth, I think, has always been delivered as very hardcore gameplay."


    "Because we're going to have some urban environments, we needed Sam to walk in a ground and not have people go "my god, it's Batman, aaaah". -Beland


    Multiplayer designer Patrick Redding told the Major Nelson podcast that "Mark and Execute" and "Last Known Position" are the major pillars of the stealth in this game.


    while referencing the Splinter Series before Conviction M.Beland had this to say...


    "Every game that is stealth action is approaching you the same way, forcing you to be weak," says Max Béland, the creative director for Conviction.



    "We want to make you feel like a predator, not a grandmother," Béland says.



    Jade Raymond, Ubisoft Toronto studio boss, has remarked that the series will still focus on action.


    The more we were talking to gamers and the more we were talking to the internal Ubisoft people, what came out was the fantasy of playing Splinter Cell, the fantasy of light and shadows, the fantasy of gadgets and Sam Fisher, the elite stealth agent. People want to be that guy. But what was coming up all the time was, 'Man, that game's hard. I played the first map and I stopped. It was too difficult.' - Max Beland in interview about the difficulty of stealth in the series before Conviction

    Instead of forcing the stealth on the player, where you're seen and the alarm rings and you need to re-try, we're going to do the opposite.- Beland

    Being a grandmother before kind of forced you to be stealth. You need to hide in the shadows because if you're seen, they shoot you and you're dead.


    "As I was playing them (The other Splinter Cells), I found them to be a lot frustrating."-developer BlackList (the developer who made this comment is standing to the audiences' left side during the E3 SC:Blacklist demo)
    Last edited by AGENTxxxxx47; 06-08-2012 at 09:28 AM.
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  2. #2
    They're revolutionizing the stealth-action genre.
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  3. #3
    Nice one Freedomss!!

    I just wish they would add in all the series defining mechanics we all have grown to love. If they add that stuff in with the brilliant combat that they established in Conviction then this game would be game of the year hands down. Until the genre and series defining mechanics return to balance the combat then these games will always feel incomplete and half assed.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENTxxxxx47 View Post
    please tell me you're just trolling

    how is removing stealth revolutionizing?
    No I'm not trolling but the people who are complaining probably are. They judge an entire game based on six minutes of promotional footage of one level of said game, and one voice actor not reprising their role.

    Stealth is not removed. Show me proof that stealth has been removed.
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  5. #5
    Member Si1entDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_5_Freedoms View Post
    They're revolutionizing the stealth-action genre.




    I'm sorry but this is in no way revolutionary. This is more Uncharted/Future Soldier than Splinter cell.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGENTxxxxx47 View Post
    “Our creative director felt that waiting was not empowering. People would tell me you can stay in the shadows, leave your console and come back later and you still won’t get detected (in Chaos Theory)."
    The fun thing is that this works in Conviction, and in every other game there is.

    Pretty conclusive list of quotes though. I shouldn't be surprised that I dislike Beland's version of Splinter Cell so much.

    I wish I could be a game developer and go **** up some franchise I choose. Personally I've never liked Mortal Kombat. Maybe I should go to change it, you know, remove the gore and immaturity and replace it with fast-paced and well-animated fighting? Or perhaps just turn it into an RPG, because I like that genre better.
    Warning: Everything above is an opinion
    The show must go on
    What is this Splinter Cell you talk about?
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  7. #7
    Senior Member BoBwUzHeRe1138's Avatar
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    No they're not. They did that with the original SC by making the game hyper realistic while still keeping it fun. Up til then, no games were that realistic when it came to stealth: Thief is set in like...an alternate world, Hitman is about a clone with a barcode, and MGS has mechs. SC was the first to make it basically realistic with some obvious exceptions like the goggles having two modes. That was so minor and was just to keep from having an animation of Sam putting on another set of goggles.

    If stealth has been revolutionized, it was done by Arkham Asylum, NOT SCbecause Arkham was the first to do this kind of aggro-stealth (I believe, even if there was one before AA, it doesn't change the fact that SCC hopped on a bandwagon rather than "revolutionizing ANYTHING.)

    They hate stealth, plain and simple. I don't get what having a realistic amount of pain threshold and health make the player weak. I felt incredibly powerful when unseen which was the point. At the end of the day, I'm still just a man and if it goes to all h*ll, I have to make sure to avoid being shot because in real life, it takes only a few shots to end a life.
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  8. #8
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    For those of you who feel compelled to call us whiners for mention our disdain for this new direction lead by 2010 conviction.

    Its not enough to have some stealth in this franchise.
    If all you got is 10 action choices and 2 stealth choices. That Sucks

    PS. Tom Clancys *** must hurt from all this Ubisoft **** *ape he's been a victim of this gen.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member BoBwUzHeRe1138's Avatar
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    Ooh! I never liked RTS'...Imma go make Command and Conquer a game about mystical forces...but it's a shooter. And you have the "Sixth Sense" which is the TOTALLY REVOLUTIONIZING gameplay mechanic that absolutely no other games have done before where it allows you to see enemy positions and "tactically" navigate an area, killing everyone in your way. Also the game dynamically changes with you. As you progress you face certain decisions which change the course of history in this world. Depending on your actions, you may find the next mission has more enemies...or even more enemies. See? Classic Command and Conquer stuff right there. You can also build your character which is like building a faction. Also I wish I could've incorporated some more of the classic elements like the real time strategy, top-down view but we couldn't because of time constraints. Also don't the old games have like....huge battles or something? I know nothing of the old games but I'm sure you're gonna love this one!
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  10. #10

    Cool

    Let me make this more clear, if stealth frustrates you , perhaps you're not a stealth fan? Right ...(bare with me here) so why make the conclusion to remove stealth features which the original Splinter Cell fans loved so much. Now before you go spouting off at me that they're making a stealth/action game, keep in mind the developers themselves have said that Splinter Cell Blacklist is MORE about action.

    if you need further clarification you can google the definition of MORE , but I'm betting most of you know what it means..right (heh)

    Beland's main argument for adding action and removing the 'grandma' features he constantly brings up in interviews(his words not mine) , is that the series monetary sales gradually went down , in this case he said it was because gamers were getting frustrated with stealth and giving up after the 1st mission. He also mentioned a large number of staff at UBI while talking about this game series was hard and one specifically said ' I gave up before the first mission was over'.

    So Why not gradually improve the depth of stealth mechanics and not simply slap on a insta-kill mechanic and added a one button do everything action features, UNLESS of course you find the core principles of splinter cell stealth slow , grandma like and frustrating.

    You see when your foundation for building the series is built upon not even liking the core mechanics of a series how can you build upon this stealth foundation? Beland did not ...he created a new action oriented foundation and re-built the series from there. The foundation of Splinter Cell is now action , they said so many times.

    In short UBI development team removed the foundation of the series (stealth) and replaced it with an (action) focus'.

    What polarized me back when the 1st game came out was this was a new way to play a game , no longer could I go guns ablaze like all the other shooters of that time.Splinter Cell was one of the revolutionary games in this aspect, like MGS and Thief games. If you did not approach the game this way and you tried the Unreal Tournament Shoot everything that moves method the game did not let you win or as some would say 'punish you'.

    But is that being fair to the stealth mechanic of the series saying game over is punishment ? By letting the player just ignore stealth ? I mean the focus of some of the early missions were zero detection. Why get mad at the mission parameters? It's like getting mad a cake for being sweet and delicious. HOW DARE YOU CAKE BE SWEET AND DELICIOUS I WANTED TO CHEW GLASS! AGH the agony


    This flawed reasoning is why this team should not have been in charge of stealth focused series. Their foundation is flawed ,at least for stealth.

    I understand the need to have a gamer continue the mission , without a game over screen , why not make the stealth a little easier for them , let them swim in the shallow pool , while still keeping them in the stealth pool. But you see therein lies the dividing line for me and I think many fans of the series , failing stealth and having a game over screen did not make me feel punished at all , instead it only invigorated me to retry the mission. It let me know that I can't get away with phew phew I have to be an assassin with the steadiest of aim , with the footsteps of a angel and the viciousness of a lion.

    (NOTE: there are speed runs for all games pre-Conviction on youtube so it's not like you could never do action shooting and moving fast already but that's moving away from my point here lets stay on subject here ok )

    The core mechanic in the series which I loved so much , which showed me a new way to game , to be careful, to be meticulous, to actually think about what I was doing was something of an anomaly and precious gem of a game filled with a crowded market of numerous action games with infinite health and a never ending supply of bullets. Yet Beland says he felt like Grandma? Beland's Grandma must be a bad *** then.


    I love action gaming and I have MANY games to choose from ...that list is long... and very enjoyable, where I am an invincible character ; but when I want to be a stealth gamer with a dangerous enemy ; I have only a back-log of old games, everything now is action oriented with one button kill all and magic laser like aim-bot abilities.

    I mean it's one thing to say the original games were clunky during action , but why is the solution a magic aim-bot one button kill? Isn't that a bit extreme?

    BUT BUT DON'T USE IT ,say the masses of casual-tards.". Don;t use mark and aimbot I mean execute.

    Well when the major pillars of the game INCLUDE mark and Execute (again developers own words here ) it doesn't leave much room for sophisticated stealth now does it , I mean if the FOCUS is action why even bother with aiming anymore, just rack up mark and execute points and let the game do the shooting for you. I hope the Collectors Edition ships with a one button controller OH A MAN CAN DREAM!~!


    Splinter Cell used to have a special niche in the crowded action genre 'it was a thinking mans game' , yet even then the game was still simple to me , I had envisioned and fantasized by now the core stealth mechanics would have been improved with even deeper , more complex stealth elements with each new title.

    Instead we get watered down stealth to point it is barely noticeable and action galore instead. Remember the constant interviews saying 'Action is now the focus' do I need to beat this into your heads people?

    Sure we only have a few minutes of footage to judge from , (fair enough) but what about the developer comments and Conviction? Is this not enough to show you that Black List will be the same thing , more about action less about stealth , more about air strikes and spider man climbing than sophisticated advanced stealth.

    I mean it's like they treat stealth as an annoyance than a love affair , like they're obligated to use it. Instead of nourshing it and letting it grow and improve stealth has to share more and more space with action until the line between stealth and action is no longer there anymore.

    NO You can't call it stealth/action...

    you can call it ACTION/stealth

    UBI Stealth Rating - 0.9%
    Last edited by AGENTxxxxx47; 06-05-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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