SH4 Screenshot Comps.......Open Discussion | Forums

[tambor198]

OK, First let me say that the SH4 Screenshot Comps is not down. I would like to see it continue as much as the next guy. What we need to do is hash out some sort of framework that would allow the Screenshot Comps to succeed and flourish. This is the place to begin discussion. Everything is open, everything can be discussed. One of the first things that should be decided is who will host the the Comps. It can be one person, two persons, or a group, the logistics can be worked out later. Themes for the screenshots seems like a good place to start. I wish I could but I can't, I just don't have the time anymore to devote to the Screenshots Comps, but that does not mean that I won't help in anyway I can to see things thrive. At least in my opinion, someone or some people should commit to hosting the Screenshot Comps each month. The commitment needs to be understood, and followed through on.

The following comments are my own and no one else. One thing that I think should change is that the winners of the Screenshot Comps should not be allowed to win every month. I think some rule should be instigated that only allows previous winners to win maybe every three months or so. Before the cries start of cheating start being made, I'm not saying anything of the sort. This is not directed at MWolfe or Werhner or anyone else. Say someone wins the Comps in June, they should not be allowed to win again until like August or so. This is not discrimination, I just would like to see everyone get a fair chance to win. The frequency is open to debate, it was just my thought on the situation.

Let the discussion start here, I want to see the Screenshot Comps flourish just like everyone else. Let's set up something that is fair to everyone and does not favor a number of people. I suppose that I need to clarify the last statement and say that I would like to see everyone have a chance to win. I don't know if that means that the voting needs to be changed or what.

Ok, guys. The gauntlet has been thrown, let's hash this thing out.

[MWolfe1963]

I don't think finding a host will be an issue, several have offered. I do think one issue that really hurt was the small screen resolutions and overall the forum isn't as big as it once was. I like the idea of themes. Cel and Wolfez were doing a great job, but our poor Wolfez is absent, I fear much worse.

As for not allowing winners to win again, that to me is always a bad idea in any format. Like telling a sports team they can play, but can't win because they're too good. It has nothing to do with that I've won several, just to me an unfair practice and would even worsen the number of participants, can't win, why enter or your not allowed. I think one of the reason that we have so few different winners is that we have so few that enter, back in the day often pages of shots to vote on with many voters and you were lucky if you won a prize. Just look at old SS contest from past years, the shots, the numbers of voters, etc., you had to bring your best to have a chance, a habit that stuck with me. Again, the issue to me is just lack of people here, when I went against the many pro's in the old days, I didn't win near as much.

I don't know how to make it more fair, many of us use mods, make our own enviroments, add ships and skins, etc....other don't, so they are at a disadvantage, still look at past winning shots, any shot can win, seems stand alone sub non action shots win the most. We have had many threads discussing how to take winning shots if you're serious about winning.

If we had more participates maybe we could split it pro's, say 3 past wins have to compete against each other, like my wife in dog showing, once a dog becomes a grand champion, he must compete only against grand champions.

I hate to say it, but this forum isn't designed to progress our likes based on this game, it's part of an overall inclusive theme, compared to the other forum designed and run in a non commercial way that still thrives. I still love this lil forum, it is my home forum, love the group we still have, but our numbers tend to wain or wander to that other place that is heavily involved in the game. The new design and limitations hurt even more, some won't enter small SS and have stated so.

Certainly incentive helps newer players, giving prizes really helped in the past. We've done Sigs, certificates, etc....seems we need to figure a way to give incentive, teach others, etc...Make it more glorious to win.

However, with a unfriendly forum format, no real mods that show interest here like Tambor once did, I don't hold much hope. Tambor, I can understand you not having time, but when we had you and several other great moderators, the forum thrived...heck, when you left for that period seems the forum slowed way down, then the format issues with MJ and ads and now a new format...,has put the old forum on life support.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Well, I never wanted to see the SS comp disappear. There were times, like the present, where I felt it was the only thing holding this forum together. I don't think 1st Place Winners should be penalized or punished by not being allowed to enter the next months competition. And lets face it, if the voters are in fact the true judges,excluding the previous month's winner from the competition is the only way to ensure they don't win again. That just isn't practical, or fair. I know I've had my issues in the past regarding membership adherence to the SS Comp Rules & Regs., but that's just due to my conditioned nature of enforcement rather than crying "Foul". Besides, somebody has to make sure the rules are strictly followed, otherwise the comps turn into a "free for all" or an "anything goes" melee.

I would love to see the SS Comps survive, but I don't feel like beating a dead horse either. There are several issues that I believe need to be addressed if there is any hope of salvaging it. First and foremost is the 800 pixel limit. It is far too restrictive and detracts far too much from the SS. How hard can it be to adjust the parameters in order to allow the return of 1024 X 768 pics? Too many important details are lost when you squeeze the pictures down to a mere 800 pixels. If UBI was truly and actively interested in this forum, they would've already known that and kept the pixel size commensurate with popular demand. Maybe sh!t does roll downhill, but so does interest and example. If UBI, (at the top), shows little interest in it's forum membership, why should anyone else? Change the pixel limitation back to 1024.

The other issue I see with the comp is some gray areas in the rules and regulations, which I believe should be strictly enforced. Now, I'm not against changing the Rs & Rs in order to suit to taste, but the current rules restrict anyone from making any changes to the pictures (color or otherwise) using Photoshop or any other photo editing software, yet you can go into the game code itself and change the color of the sky, the water or anything else one likes. I'm not against allowing SS using any generally available mod, but if you have to start manipulating colors in order to win, where is the reason (or enforcement) in using another (or any) method to circumvent the rules. It's not merely a question of knowing how to do it in the game code. The question is: Where do you draw the line in what is reasonable? How far do we let it go before it turns into a "free for all"? Bring back the edited SS comps and allow color changing through any method into that section of the comp. These are two of the biggest issues in my mind. I rather enjoyed making sigs for the winners and would like to see the competition return, even if MWolfe still wins all the time. If he wasn't allowed to win through any rule or regulation, it would no longer be a "Competition" as defined by the word.

The only reason I haven't entered recently is because, besides working 12 hour rotating shifts (something I can't even begin to explain in understandable terms regarding time consumption), my new puppy is usurping all my remaining time, though this will subside as he grows and learns. Yes, I've deleted most of my archived SS, but I can take new ones and already have begun in anticipation of the return of the SS comp. Still, I haven't played SHIV in over a week despite being on vacation from work and, again, this is due to the attention I must give Wolfgang.

I think it would help if I (or you, Tambor) made sigs of recognition for 2nd and 3rd place winners too. There needs to be more incentive for those new to the competition. Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts on the subject.

[donna577]

The major problem I see is that there is no anonymity, I know Mwofes environments, Werns skins, Andypants battleship, and I myself have custom conning tower art. Some like myself have posted screenies of their new "toys" just prior to the next comp. There needs to be at least fifteen to twenty participants who all use a completely different style of screenie each month so they can remain anonymous.

About the picture size, as a female I will tell you once and for all.....size does count ! anyone who told you different were just being polite and already knew they were in possession of a great story to tell their friends on the next girls night out (or boys night, my apologizes Mwolfe and/or Wern).

Maybe there could be a custom comp and a non-custom comp, but even non-custom can be debated when it comes to attainable mods. Anyways I'll leave it up to you old timers.

Edit: At the time of this edit, there were 99 views to this post, but how many actually enter the comps.....4,7,8,10 at the most?

[WernherVonTrapp]

...or boys night, my apologizes Mwolfe and/or Wern).

...

If I wasn't proud of my true size, I wouldn't be asking for more pixels.

[nohunt1]

If I wasn't proud of my true size, I wouldn't be asking for more pixels.

.....Good one..!!

I agree winners should not be penalized. As for enhancements to skins, environments, etc., I don't think they really come into play when weighing the merit of a picture vs. another. I think the overall "impact" a picture makes when viewing it the first time is what draws the viewer to it. You might then observe the other factors that come into play, but I definitely feel they are of secondary importance. To be quite frank, I didn't realize MW's pics were so "enhanced" until they were mentioned in this discussion.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I didn't realize MW's pics were so "enhanced" until they were mentioned in this discussion.

That's interesting. I didn't say his pictures were enhanced nor did I read that anyone else did. I griped that he wins all the time, but that was just a gripe and that's the way the cookie crumbles. I spoke generally about any and all participants when I talked about editing photos in photoshop, etc., etc..
I'm curious as to how you assumed I was speaking of MWolfe. Any enforcement of rules and regulations would encompass all the entrants, not just MWolfe.

[nohunt1]

MWolfe wrote...

"I don't know how to make it more fair, many of us use mods, make our own enviroments, add ships and skins, etc....other don't, so they are at a disadvantage "

Got it from the man himself...

[LouLewis1967]

It might end up being too complicated, but what if there was a scoring system or categories like in a beauty pageant. Like you could score 1 to 5 on environment, 1 to 5 on action, etc. Come up with about 3 or 4 categorizations and then sum up the scores to make an aggregate score.

My personal disclaimer is that I play with all the external cameras off, so I can only get shots from "on board", and that's just pretty boring since everybody sees that default POV all the time anyway.

[MWolfe1963]

What I was saying is those that use any supermod, {they all use env mods.} or just env mods are IMO at an advantage over stock submitted SS, not
sure that would hold out if you look at voting.
.
As far as I know the use of env mods, your own or others has never been in question as a gray area, it's been discussed numerous times over the years and any env. changes within the game files have always been allowed. They're several env. mods and probably another 100 smaller env. mods that change env files, you an get numerous looks by how you combine them. Do they enhance the game graphics, certainly they do, but we long
ago reached the limits of how far you can improve graphics due to an old game code. I am not smart enough to go beyond what WClear has done,
I simply adjust colors, cloud formations to suit my own taste. Basically I take the existing env. mods and pull the pieces out that I like,
I use the night settings of PE4, shaders of Real Env and the scene dat settings of old ROW, then I tweak colors. I think tweaking colors
is purely subjective and to personal taste, some like oranger sunsets, some yellow or pink or a combination, none are better than the other.
Many like my colors, many don't, but overall I've never seen it have any more effect on vothing than other env. mods. I actually use less color
mass than Env.5

Probably 90% of my SS wins are with TMO alone, I went and looked back at the last 8 contest and counted a total of 11 shots I've entered using my
own env. settings starting in 10/11 when I started using them, I've entered several of my sunsets and they seldom get votes, Overall it seems the theme, title, etc., have more effect on voting than what colors you prefer. Since any of my sunsets hardly score, I figure most don't like them or just vote on other criteria. I've had two winners, since last Oct with my env. settings, Hunting Moon and Coral Sea. However, Hunting Moon is the same night look you get using PE3,,,an old env. mod. Other wins are using TMO, which uses Env5.

Here are two of my favorite sunset SS that I entered.

This one scored no points.


This one scored big two points and lost out of what appears to be a stock SS.


So does playing with env files to suit your taste have effect, I honestly don't know, the voting seems to say a big no.
I've also added many ships and tweaked some of the skins to my liking, does that give advantage, I don't know.
Do we limit action shots because some know where to find it, limit single missions or patrols. Heck, a few of my wins
came from Tambors single missions. but all in all stand alone sub shots take most the wins.

The only way to make a fair graphic playing field is we all go back to crappy stock, it was long ago decided no one would want that and the use
of any mods has been allowed. Other than that, I've only seen one shot entered in all my years here that I thought was edited and I don't see anyone trying to hide their name, etc. With a simple right click you can view who owns most shots, when Wolfer was doing it he would hide the tags so no one could see who the shots belonged to before the vote, which I think is a good idea.

The only problem I see is participation, like I said go back a few years and look at the SS contest, it was a brutal process and very competitive.
Everyone took advantage of anything they could, but within the rules, no gray areas, etc..... Many don't care for mods, playing with files, adding
stuff. just submit stock shots.......thing is, they appear to win, so I think people do consider other criteria other than looks. Heck, a high end graphics card
can render a sharper more detailed look, do we start setting limits on those. Tweaking graphic settings can highly improve the look, no more tweaks allowe?

I think it would be a mistake to start enforcing limits other than the rules we've gone by for years, instead of going down in quality, we should seek to increase it. It goes back, do you punish those who seek to do their best within the rules we've long had by limiting mods or if they win they can't enter again for months, to me that is a bad idea. We can't help the crappy forum format and lack of numbers. I think somehow we have to figure out how to be incentive, maybe prizes, better sigs, bring back "best SS of the year", themes, etc...

Sure, if we had a big forum, we could have divisions, edit and non edit, mod vs non mod, etc.....all those ideas have been floated around before, they always end in the sink, cept edit vs non edit, be nice to have that back, but it died out long ago due to no interest.