SCC Horizontal Ledge Run: Amateur Hour | Forums

[hastings84]

I just had another go at it when I went to pick up GRFS. I was prepped to load a vid with a big "suck it" () tag, but alas, I couldn't do it. Brick wall, smooth top. It was too slippy, my fingers kept slipping off. I could do the hand over hand foot over foot, but couldn't achieve any speed. Need sticky gloves or chalk.
Regardless, my lack of ability, or exagerration thereof is irrelevant. The fact that I can do something similar in spite of not being ANY kind of specialist in this area convinces me that experts CAN do it.

I was talking about the same movement, as SCC, not a slow, lifting-myself climb - Which I never actually attempted, in regards to the SCC movement, because it's not THE MOVEMENT. A climb is a climb, a ledge-run is a ledge-run, and is physically impossible. Doing it on the side of a freshly-cured foundation footing was apparently the worse surface to try it on, based on your accounts? Interesting!

To answer your question about the motion capture - I remember an interview with Sam Fisher, himself, regarding mo-cap, and how the developers like to use a mix of mo-cap and manual animations. There is an almost certain probability that the ledge-run we're all arguing about was a manually animated set-piece, by some very talented, but very unrealistic employee at Ubisoft. (Lol, if that person is reading this)

Regardless, good job on everything. This is a VERY entertaining thread, which says a lot about the majority of other threads over here :P

[SolidSage]

Hey, I didn't say anything about concrete being a bad surface, where did you get that from. I said smooth bricks were slippy for my fingers. I imagine concrete would be good at the top, for the fingers, bit bumpy and all that, good finger grips. Smooth concrete walls (if they were smooth) might suck for the feet though.

I assumed it didn't work on concrete for you, well, because of you, not the concrete. Same as why I can't do it well yet, because of me. I know there are a boat load of climbers that make my ability look like a four year olds.

[hastings84]

Concrete is very smooth - A heck of a lot smoother than most brick. That's all I meant. The tops of foundations are rough, jagged, and would destroy my hands more than the damage you took on shingle.

By the way - GRFS is in the console, as I type this. I don't want to hit the campaign too hard without friends. Although I am impressed with what I see, so far!

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I believe the footing helps maintain strength without letting so much weight dangle needlessly...I also think it would be louder (since your feet would be moving across the wall). However I wouldn't mind this: the default wall run up certain surfaces that have a higher ledge, or the classic jump to ledge. Then you will grab the ledge and dangle. Pushing Y will lift your legs upward against the wall SCC style. Pressing B would drop them down again. Pushing B again will drop you down. Pushing up on the thumbstick would have Sam climb up the ledge/over the rail.

What do you think? The SCC style would be slightly louder (but you can still vary the amount of speed and noise you make) while dangling is quieter but much slower. All speeds must be realistic and plausible meaning even the SCC feet-against-wall style should be greatly lowed to at most, the slow speed in SCC. Also I still think it should not be overarm and corssing. But more like the classic games even when you have your feet up.

[hastings84]

I wouldn't mind the SCC ledge-run still being in SC6, as long as it had some really negative affects, like being loud. The same way running is loud, ledge-running should be within that category of movement. It really comes down to a better AI system, who can better pick up on and recognize sound. More sensitivity, I guess.

Because if you get detected, YES you should be able to move faster, and disappear quickly, like they pushed with SCC... So having the quick movements should still be a fair element, IMO.

[michaelanjello]

Instead of having 2 seperate movements for the ledge run, why shouldnt there be just 1, but with variable speed. So when sam is going slow, hesdoing a shimmy, and when he starts going faster, he lifts his legs up in a smooth animation and starts moving faster to the side. This would make complete sence, since the shimmy would be quieter, while moving the joystick further to the side would smoothly change the animation, gradually increase the speed of the cgaracter, but also increase the sound he makes. Itd be like the diference between stalking slowly while crouching, or running whilecrouching( SCCT)

[SolidSage]

I can always go for more diversity in the move sets. So different types of ledge hanging and moving works fine for me.
I also agree that the ledge run needs to be noisy at high speeds, and noiser at lower speeds than the old school ledge movement.

Variable speeds and increased audio density for all types of movement.
Risk vs Reward gameplay.
More penalization for being careless.
Stamina management.

[Jazz117Volkov]

What if holding the cover trigger changed your stance while hanging?
Death From Above only needs to be governed by the crouch/drop but!on and the melee but!on...
Actually, probably be best to scrap DFA under any sort of drop button (that way we can have quiet landings back without being forced to skullr@pe an NPC)
DFA should only be under 'B' but only when you're holding the cover trigger.

[The_5_Freedoms]

Thank you SolidSage for taking one for the team and doing some "hands-on" research into this matter.

My biggest gripe with the wall run in SCC is that it looks and feels too easy (almost artificial) -- characters appear to "glide along" the ledge without much effort and can stop and start without much trouble.

Sage demonstrates using his hands to get a good grip on the roof in between crossing them over while in Conviction the character has their hands on the ledge for less than a second before moving on to cross over again (I hope that makes sense) at a speed that should be impossible to maintain for more than a few seconds.

In previous games, Sam would move along ledges with a sense of difficulty and awkwardness -- movement speed was slow (though not too slow, at least for me anyway) and you could hear him grunting with effort (especially when he pulled himself up).

There's obviously benefit to using your legs when traversing ledges but I don't believe that the wall-running technique in Conviction should have been depicted as being as effortless as it was.

[SolidSage]

You're welcome 5Freedoms, any excuse to get to relive my youth!
You've made a point here using words that circumvent my own perception towards this. the word "effortless" really puts focus on the real issue. I have to agree with you that SCC Horizontal Ledge Run looks effortless, and it wouldn't be, for anyone, anywhere.
You also pointed out the effort Sam displayed when climbing, and though I wouldn't have recalled it on my own, I do remember it now.

So I am forced to concede on this one. The research and good arguments have convinced me that the SCC Horizontal Ledge Run is NOT realistic.

But I am still very cool with it being in the game, I like being Captain America speed! But for a truly immersive feeling of being a REAL person doing that stuff, no matter how fit, we would certainly have to see more effort, and perhaps a reduction of speed.