So I am forced to concede on this one. The research and good arguments have convinced me that the SCC Horizontal Ledge Run is NOT realistic.
But I am still very cool with it being in the game, I like being Captain America speed! But for a truly immersive feeling of being a REAL person doing that stuff, no matter how fit, we would certainly have to see more effort, and perhaps a reduction of speed.
Well, it's not realistic in terms of the speed and efficiency we see in Conviction but the technique itself is definitely there.
But listen, although Freedoms came at me with logic that I can't refute, I'd still argue with YOU that the SCC speed is achievable, for somebody.
Not realistic in that it would make sense to use it, not realistic in regards to the direction changing or effortless nature of it, but realistic in the sense that somebody, (a few somebodies) could achieve SCC speed, in one direction for a reasonable distance, using the SCC technique.
What do you think about that?
I wouldn't have bet though, I've never been a gambler. It don't make no sense.
Really, I'm going to drop it. This entire thread is amusing, and I've already given you credit there.
What do I think about "somebody achieving SCC speed and technique, in one direction for a reasonable distance"? I would have to SEE it to believe it. As I have said, given my logical understanding of physics, and the human body, I honestly just plain don't think that someone can do it.
I would really love it if our commdev could eventually shed some light as to how the ledge-run animation was created. My guess is that's it's a hand-made animation by a very talented animator at Ubi - who has fooled some of this forums most intelligent members into believing his or her work is mo-cap.
There is a reason they don't do it and you brought it up yourself. It's risky. They don't wanna lose the competition and a fail is a fail. Well that's only a fun competition that literally anyone can attempt to do. Sam Fisher (and by association, all Splinter Cells including Archer and most likely Voron agents like Kestrel) are on top secret, highly RISKY and world changing missions. Sam prevents full blown war and/or catastrophe in the first 4 games: to stop information warfare and algorithms that are detrimental to security as well as nuclear arms, to stop the spread of a deadly virus before it's released on American soil (or any soil for that matter), to stop the same algorithms from the original before the world is plunged into WWIII, and finally to prevent a triple simultaneous nuclear attack on America. Even in conviction, which story has a ridiculous number of plotholes and improbabilities, implausibilities, and impossibilities -- he's trying to stop a coup of the presidential office. Do you REALLY think they would risk doing a maneuver that could potentially drain their strength when they may need it later, or make more noise, or doom them to death when literally their lives and the lives of probably millions are at stake?
There's no room for mistake in Splinter Cell -- that has ALWAYS been the point. You'd never see Sam going hand over hand because it's just stupid to make things harder on yourself when the world is at stake. Another thing -- those who did it on Ninja Warrior would be over water even if they did attempt it. At WORST they'd lose the competition and maybe injure an arm (but that's unlikely because of the water. Sam is always on the side of a building or a ledge overlooking 50 stories, or a cliff, etc. He would DIE from it. So no, I doubt he;d go hand over hand.
There is no way to achieve those speeds. Trust me. he is literally gliding over the ledges with barely any if not NO friction whatsoever. Can you go faster than he does in the first 4 or faster than you? Definitely. Traceurs could most definitely do a faster shimmy especially with their feet to the wall. It still would NOT be at those speeds and it would be LOUD.
My idea? I think I may have posted this earlier or elsewhere but this would be like if they used SCDA's engine or an engine similar to DA as opposed to SCC and so the controls are like the old style controls for the most part): when you jump up to a ledge or drop off, to a ledge...you go into the default slow shimmy speed. It'd be just like DA speed. If you push B or down, you will drop down, up and you will climb up. If you push Y, you will bring your legs up to the wall like in SCC but you will do a faster shimmy since you have the firm placement of your feet but it would not be over hand.
Likewise, certain surfaces like catwalks you will not be able to do the faster form because...wellthere's only air below you. What do you think? Would that be a good middle ground? You get the faster speed, I get the slower speed, plus if I need/want to use the faster soedd I don;t feel like I just cheated AND it stays within the realms of possibility and plausibility as well as adding in a more traditional SC style mechanic. The whole pulling your feet up thing is very reminiscent of pulling your legs up while on a pipe in the old games.
No I don't think SC's would use it, for exactly the reasons you stated. The comment I made about Ninja Warrior was also reasoning for why THEY don't use it. But I think THEY could do it, and generate SCC speed.
Granted, it would require extreme effort, and it wouldn't be practical, and it would drain all their strength and totally poop them out.
I also can't deny that different surfaces are going to seriously impede it.
So, I have said, it's not Realistic already, as far as use, effort, practicality, noise, and so on.
But just because most of my argument is wrong, doesn't mean it all is. So I have refined it. I am now arguing the position that an Athlete/Climber of top levels, would be able to simulate the SCC ledge run and it's speed, on the right surface, using the same technique, for a reasonable distance in one direction.
i might just have to train for the next decade and find the perfect location so I can post a video of me doing it at 50. Then I'll be all like "in your face" and you'll all be like "what, who are you? Someone bring me my porridge."
Which is why it sucks that so many of my peers play CoD and have okayd the industry into forgetting about hardcore gamers. I may be 18 but i loved the slow pace of the SC games...I have ever since I first saw the game but was too scared by how real everything seemd back in 2nd grade. Maybe 3rd grade. You get my point though.
I thought you were an old guy Bob.
You make good points, you've been on the side of the Ledge Run argument that is more correct.
How's this for Realistic though? If Sam got shot ONCE on a mission, out there all alone...getting to a health kit and dressing his injury, and continuing on with his ESPIONAGE mission, (before the enemy closed in on him because of the noise of the shot, or the alarm raised by the person nearest the shot) wouldn't be realistic really. And that same med kit being stashed in a crouchy cellar/vent type area is HIGHLY unlikely too (SAR). It's also not realistic at all, that a guy carrying an SC-20K around wouldn't be capable of using it to eliminate the enemy he is SPECIFICALLY carrying it to defend himself against, in an effective way (I'm talking 1 or 2 guys in their pattern like SAR).
There's more of course but you get where I'm headed. Splinter Cell has never been too realistic really. It has always had 'gamey' elements. We as individuals pick the one's we are cool with and the ones we are not.
The PACING of the gameplay however, the effort to remain unseen and unheard, yes, those seemed real to me for "espionage, steal the intel type missions".
I guess I enjoy Sam getting the "dismantle the machine missions", which I do think would be performed at a faster pace and be much deadlier like SCC. The Ledge Run is super soldier'ish but I LIKE it.
You don't enjoy COD either? I don't want to play more of it, I generally don't want to play FPS's these days. But guess what? I tried Far Cry 3's 4 player CO-OP and I really enjoyed it. i know I know, I'm all up Ubi's tail, it's true I love their games in general and I talk about it a lot, but I am honest about my feelings. I can't dissect every little thing immediately, I either like something or I don't, I'm drawn to it and then after I can start to figure out what the appealing and unappealing micro elements are.
But anyway, I really liked the Far Cry 3 co-op demo (I didn't test the SP). It was a fun, over the top shooter action game, great graphics, controls and tools and the visuals were pretty and didn't make me feel "eyeball jitter". The most fun parts of gameplay for me were the team objective (defend the train for a period) and then after we completed that bit, the mini competitive scenario. We all got sniper rifles and competed to get the most kills from a bridge. I won that shiz of course (on the real), but it was close. But even more importantly than that, it was a GOOD TIME.
Looks like the SP has a real mature theme, and an interesting story. In a head to head with COD I would pick Far Cry 3 easily. I kind of like that it's NOT a military shooter too. Apparently there is a MASSIVE Map Editor community, where players build and share maps. Built on the micro scale, forming land masses and stuff...crazy right? I spoke to their Ambassador and he told me it took him months to build a quality map sometimes. The Map Editor is supposed to be returning in FC3, so that community is thrilled.
I loved the separate game teams deal, each one had their own tent or stall (structure) in the Ubisoft camp. They all LOOKED like their games.
The Creed guys looked intelligent and reserved as if there was a lot of deep thought going on beneath the surface.
Far Cry peeps looked a little eccentric? Like inventor types or something, I can't describe it well, like they might be that guy on an island splicing DNA strands together or something. Very fun people.
WatchDog's team were very stealth, I didn't see them much, I should have tried to get a look in their dark room
4th Echelon was populated by guys that I feel were the most like me (might be an insult), they seemed serious and controlled (self), deliberate, but there was also an almost...Archer'ish element too, Like a street attitude....I dunno....Cool is a word that really does apply here but of course I would think that if that's the direction I am drawn to myself right? The things I think are cool are the things I am going to try to emulate or be. I probably don't make no sense right now.
And they had an Upstairs....did Creed have an upstairs?
Then there was the main Tent, (Yves.), it was the command center, it was big, upstairs and down and had a bunch of cool people and stuff in it.
It was like a deployed Ubisoft wing, with four squadrons and some smaller ancillary forces and of course the Executive and planning branch. And then the Just Dance stage in the center reminded me of Creed's training circle at Monteriggionni, except instead of practicing fighting they were dancing. REALLY WELL.
I've been watching too much Game of Thrones or something.
Sony's set up was tight too, cool little gaming rooms, upper VIP balconies and then an almost arcade like center area. Lots of games to play. GOW4 has 4 player? Rezi6 looked REALLY good again, phew!
Microsoft's was spacious but my least favorite set up of those three, but they had a side scrolling game called 'Deadlight' there. XBLarcade in July/august. I am on that SHIZ yo, that house, Tequila something made a zombie survival 2D platformer, look and play in a really excellent way. Reminded me of old skool POP. And then there were little stories happening in the background in the distance, like an RVfamily trying to escape a zombie mob. It was a really pretty and fun little game. Supposed to be about 6 hours. Check this, I waited in line 10 minutes to play it. I was getting miffed cos dude in front would die and then restart, how's that any kind of cool man? I played for a bit and when I died I let next dude behind me have his turn. ONE QUARTER up at a time man. YOURS was in the machine, then my wife's was next and then mine. People haven't even learned the basics these days. I was getting noisy with my disgruntlement but I wasn't ever an azz, no intimidating or none of that cos that's not cool either but dooode!
ANYWAY, that was all metaphorical, there weren't any quarters.
Yeah, you might think this got way off topic but there actually was something about PACING in there and that was very relevant to the Ledge Run discussion.
If you read all this Bob, more power to you.