Ubisoft’s Jade Raymond calls upon developers to take more risks. | Forums

[sameer_monier]

I hate tie-ins. When I buy a game for Xbox I expect to get the complete package and not have some parts locked away in Facebook or handheld games. Heck, I even hate that Halo, Gears of War, Mass Effect and a multitude of other games have started to rely on books so heavily. I bought a couple of the first Halo books and hated it "The game rocks, but this sucks". So now that Halo developers for example are saying they want to expand the universe with more tie-ins to the books I'm getting very concerned whether I will get into the game at all. Some comment on Metacritic about Gears of War 3 nailed it: "It felt like I was playing GoW4", there was so much "What? Who's that? What are you talking about?" going on.

Sure "a little avatar item" is small compared to entire plot points, but "if you give it a finger..."

maybe first time ?!, but I totally agree with you, I TBH hate book ties in, first where I live it is kinda hard to get such a book, and 2nd as you said alot of the events seems to have a background or something in the books, we used to have those backgrounds as character diaries, or logs we find and listen to, now everything is either continued in a book, or connected to a book, or they are some events according on the FB game or something.

[hastings84]

The thing about this is, the main game doesn't have to, and definitely should not RELY on an external experience, like the one Sage and I put forward.

You get your main game, but for the people who want to extend their Splinter Cell experience, then there's that great possibility. Face it, you don't have to read any book from any game to UNDERSTAND the games. I have played Halo, and Gears of War, and understood the stories quite well - and I didn't actually realize there were books, TBH.

An external experience or tie-in should not take away from or make less of an exploit of the main game. If you do, then yeah - you're screwing people. Do you think everyone who plays Battlefield 3 uses Battlelog? No. Do the ones who don't, care? No. Because it's optional, and doesn't affect the main game whatsoever.

Besides, since the dolla' makes Ubisoft holla', if they charged a couple bucks for the iPhone/Droid app, and made the "rewards" cool little items - The outcome is obvious: Then YOU guys, who don't want to use the external game would get jealous of the ones who DO use it, and chances are - You'll eventually buy it, because you like Splinter Cell, and you probably do want the entire experience.

There's something deliciously subliminal and ignorant about that. I'll sign that employee contract anytime, Ubisoft.

[kalle90]

Besides, since the dolla' makes Ubisoft holla', if they charged a couple bucks for the iPhone/Droid app, and made the "rewards" cool little items - The outcome is obvious: Then YOU guys, who don't want to use the external game would get jealous of the ones who DO use it, and chances are - You'll eventually buy it, because you like Splinter Cell, and you probably do want the entire experience.

There's something deliciously subliminal and ignorant about that. I'll sign that employee contract anytime, Ubisoft.

Obviously, I'd say that's a big reason why they are doing it. Instead of just getting money from the main game they add Facebook stuff with transactions, books and such to expand the universe. I just don't like this current bits and pieces trend. When playing a game you might get popups of "Buy DLC to open this", especially bad in Fable 3.

I just hate the practice and to me it does the opposite of wanting more. If I can't get the complete experience with the main game I probably start to dislike the series and not buy it in the first place.

Sure most games are understandable, but it's quite obvious Kai Leng or James Vega from Mass Effect 3 had more proper introduction in a book, or that why grunts and hunters had gone back to the Covenant in Halo etc. small details are already hidden away in external media. With time I only assume it to get worse. There are plenty of reasons why I've started to lose my interest in gaming and this is one of the reasons, among DLC policies, streamlining, DRM and so on.

[hastings84]

Casual gamers don't care about that stuff though, is what I'm getting at. Additional items, books, external games that relate to a main game are likely meant for players who are passionate about the universe they are playing in. At least, they are the most likely ones to take part, IMHO.

That's why I don't care at all about GoW, ME, or Halo books, or FB games or whatever else they have - I'm a casual player of those series, at best. I play them once, maybe, and then I'm done with them. I don't care why "the grunts and hunters went back to the covenant", because bottom line is, I'd be lucky to even tell who who they are.

The opposite is true, with Splinter Cell. It is the number one franchise that I invest myself in, so why wouldn't I like to have more of it, in more places than just on my console?

I'm really curious what others think about it.

[SolidSage]

@Hastings
I really like your ideas on tieing in platforms to a single experience. I know lots of fans, myself included get a little down hearted at all the exclusive bribery used to get consumers to purchase a game from this or that outlet. Creed is a great example, and now GRFS, items or maps or other exclusivities that are so spread across the board that it seems, and likely is, impossible to get your hands on it all. Usually, after time, most of it does become available.
But, on the other side of it, how cool is it to get your hands on a co-op SC outfit that only a small percentage of the community has, or guns or other items of that nature? There is something appealing about it to all of us. And of course publishers are having to find new ways of rewarding their affiliates who are providing an outlet for their product.
So it makes sense and we're moving more towards it thanaway from it anyway, so, if resistance is futile, we may as well embrace the method.

I like the idea of making it intel files, lots and lots of them hidden in places that require significant effort to locate them. Like you said, similar to Creeds Glyphs which were an exceptionally fun and involving addition to the gameplay...massive extra replay value due directly to them. And the puzzles were good and revealed interesting story things.

But how about this; instead of item unlocks that just upset people that don't do cross platform, keep it literary. The Agent collects the files on site at significant risk to himself, then has to upload (data hack) them to the handler's hard drive (Solidsage@soandso for example). Then as you say, later on, whenever, (on the toilet ! Sorry that was gross) the Player can decipher or play the puzzles as you said and unlock the Original Tom Clancy Splinter Cell stories. Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon could be in there too if we needed more but basically each piece of intel be an Original Chapter from the books. Granting your serious fan access to all the history. Perhaps there could be well written summaries of each SC game as well, really solidfy the legacy, nail down all the loop holes and deviations and generate and file a SOLID, hard copy of the legitimate hostory.
There might be an argument against that it steals sales from TC books, but a lot of us who read them anyway might not be so offended by reading them again and those of us who haven't read them might be encouraged to purchase future entries since we obviously haven't been motivated enough to this point.

One thing, I need it for Windows Phone.....true Player's communication tool.

P.S.
On the maturity things. I agree, and it is what I was getting at, GTA approach is sometimes an immaturer take on maturity, but it's great for that title. Uninhibited silly fun, a great recreational playground for our minds, free of real concern. That type of content has no place in SC though, or TC titles in general, this is where we want to get our thinking on.
I had to point out that I am not against immature maturity at all, I really like boobs and think there should be more of them in the appropriate titles along with more violent violence etc, but lets make sure the bubble gum stays in the bubble gum machines and expect MORE from our thinking man's/woman's games.


I'll see you on the box bud. maybe GRFS?

[hastings84]

@SolidSage

Offering the additional experience on as many devices as possible is a MUST. iPhone, Droid, Windows Phone, and whatever else comes out - definitely.

I'm really excited to have something like this. Although your "literary" idea, on it's own, may be a little mundane, I feel like the rewards could really benefit from being a mixture of concept art, avatar items, gamer pics, as well as your cool "literary" story ideas. I'd hate for it to be the same type of reward, over and over, because I feel like it would get old - even if it were just avatar items over and over again, for that matter. Some variation is always good, and diversity in not knowing what the next reward is going to be. I love your idea about a co-op outfit reward. The ultimate, "I completed all intel pieces" type of reward. Love it love it love.

I really wouldn't worry about the people whom it upsets, though. I mean, you'll never be able to make EVERYBODY happy. At least you can make a great, diverse experience for a lot of people, who care to, or who are able to take part. I'd feel bad for the people who don't have one of said devices, to play the puzzle game on - But that's life, I suppose. Doesn't mean Ubi should NOT do something because SOME people can't take part. But let's face it, MOST people in the modern world have one of these devices, probably.

And yeah, as soon as GRFS is out - we'll do it. I was in the beta with you one day - Not sure if you realized it though.

[kalle90]

Casual gamers don't care about that stuff though, is what I'm getting at. Additional items, books, external games that relate to a main game are likely meant for players who are passionate about the universe they are playing in. At least, they are the most likely ones to take part, IMHO.

That's why I don't care at all about GoW, ME, or Halo books, or FB games or whatever else they have - I'm a casual player of those series, at best. I play them once, maybe, and then I'm done with them. I don't care why "the grunts and hunters went back to the covenant", because bottom line is, I'd be lucky to even tell who who they are.

The opposite is true, with Splinter Cell. It is the number one franchise that I invest myself in, so why wouldn't I like to have more of it, in more places than just on my console?

I'm really curious what others think about it.

I'm just the exact opposite. I like to have all my games complete when I buy them, and I don't want to be forced to invest myself in the other medias when I wanted a game. For example enjoying Halo 3 got a lot harder when I realized grunts and hunters had without explanation switched sides again. On the other hand I bought Halo for the game so I don't want to follow the books, animation and all that stuff either, as much as all the unexplained things bother me. If Halo 4 wanders further into it, I'm not surprised if Halo 4 will be my last Halo.

Sure there are many ways to do tie-ins. Some are less bothering than others.

[hastings84]

ISure there are many ways to do tie-ins. Some are less bothering than others.

That's the beauty of it. Nobody is FORCING you to invest yourself in anything. So while YOU get an achievement for collecting all the intel files, the players who chose to explore them further on other platforms, in the form of puzzle decryptions, get bonus rewards for investing themselves in the complete Splinter Cell universe, instead of only what the main game offers.

Just because it doesn't interest you at all, doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Personally, like I said, I'd be super stoked to have this become a real thing. Like SolidSage sort of mentioned - Sitting on the toilet, decrypting an intel file I picked up a couple days ago, in the main game. What's not to love?

[kalle90]

That's the beauty of it. Nobody is FORCING you to invest yourself in anything

Just saying that done wrong they can actually hurt how I (and I guess more people in general) feel about the full game itself. If it feels like the game is missing something. It's tough because the tie-ins can't be an afterthought, but in a way they should be.

[Aj6627]

My thought on disc locked DLC is that the only case it should EVER be used is for preorder exclusives and the such or other content that will be free to all down the road.

For one, if it is on the disc, then by definition it is NOT DLC.

Also on the topic of CoD, I love that with BLOPS2 CoD is essentially copying itself by copying games that copied it.