Crow’s In-depth Suggestions and Feedback for Ghost Recon Online: Game update V 0.6.0
Crow’s In-depth Suggestions and Feedback for Ghost Recon Online: Game update V 0.6.0
First off guys this is a phenomenal game. I can’t stress enough how much I love and enjoy playing your creation. The only way I ever see myself playing another shooter is when your servers are offline, and even then only because this junky is going through withdrawal and is willing to try anything. Thank you for including me in the Beta and look forward to the next phase.
I have a background in Video Game development and have 3 Years in Game and Art Design at the Art Intuitive working towards my BA Degree and as such used that knowledge to try and put as much thought and insight into this feedback as possible to better communicate and make GRO the best shooter out on the market.
First up a few key issues I would like to bring to light and suggestions on how to clear them up. I’ll start by category and work from there.
-Sprint: I am perfectly fine with not being able to SPRINT while reloading. However pushing the SPRINT key should cancel whatever action is currently happening and return the players avatar to the neutral position (standing up, ready to SPRINT). The major issue I have here is the awkwardness of trying to dislodge yourself from cover or prone and most importantly to cancel the reload. Pushing the Sprint key should do this for you.
As it stands there are only 2 ways to cancel a reload: Melee or to switch weapons. You have to wait till both actions are complete before your character is able to actually SPRINT. Pushing the Sprint key should cancel reload or dislodge you from cover so you can attempt to save your own life. A lot of movement related issues and the controversy on the reload should be resolved with this function. If this isn't an option then simply having a feature in the game options to turn off "AUTO-Reload" so a player can focus on either reloading or using Sprint to execute defensive tactics (I.E. Diving, Sliding, or just Sprinting away)
-Diving, Sliding: Diving and Sliding are movement related actions and should be unable to fire while continuing to Dive or Slide. Thus I would recommend that the Weapon Ready Time (Handling) doesn’t start until after the Dive or Slide is fully complete. Thus gets rid of Dolphin Diving and Sliders who are capable of sliding around the map shooting other players while sliding.
-Prone: Dropping prone or getting up from Prone should have a slight weapon ready time. (Around 25% of your handling time) This is to prevent those people who can seamlessly go from standing to prone or prone to standing while still continuously firing uninterupted.
-Spawn Zones: There are a lot of issues over perceived spawn camping; I don’t mind either way but I can understand the frustration. The simplest and most effective way I see to resolve this is to create a new ground effect much like the capture zones called a Defensive Zone.
The Defensive zone surrounds the spawn point and is about 200% larger extending up the map zone a short ways and provides friendly team members with a passive buff, something along the lines of 50% armor buff. Opponents can still try to engage targets but they are at a considerable disadvantage and clearly on the losing end of any sort of engagement around those Defensive Zones. Simply put its suicide, but if a team is desperate enough to push their opponents back into their defensive zone they CAN. It would still be a viable tactic, just one that cannot be maintained for more than a few moments, and certinatly nothing that can be sustained indefinatly.
The above suggestion should give players enough time to clear any choke points that the map itself forces them into while exiting the spawn. Obviously when the Spawn moves the Defensive Zone moves with the Spawn to it's new location.
-Conquest: I like conquest being 2 Rounds. The best suggestion to maintain this was I believe by CompassGhost, lower the capture time of Point C to 5 minutes instead of 10 Minutes: Simple, easy and effective.
-Grenades: Recently Grenades were retooled to be a bigger radius but having less kill power. I feel the balance has slipped passed overpowered to underpowered, most specifically the HE grenades. I find them very lacking. The Frag grenades are fine in my opinion but the HE grenade needs a slight buff and I would like to see this buff not in damage but rather the actual concussive effect itself. In other words HE Grenades Knock you down. Simply apply the same effect for the Blitz to the HE grenades. Though it is pretty rare to get an actual kill with a HE grenade itself but should be possible to literally blow people out of cover where they are at the mercy of whoever can take advantage of their disability until they get up and regain control of their character.
There are a lot of mysterious attributes happening to weapons that seem both illogical and counter-intuitive. For instance on the MP5 and OC-14 Sub-Machineguns there are some guns (Mainly the SD) that do more damage with a short barrel + sound suppressor than their counterparts with Medium Barrels with no attachments. The Medium barrels should do more damage. But in the case of the MP5 and the OC-14 they do the same damage and when you put a silencer on one of those weapons with a Medium Barrel they actually do less damage than the SD Short barrel counterparts, odd no?
Also you have some very strange weirdness with things such has Stocks, Barrels, Scopes increasing Handling (Shorter time to ready weapon and stability) when they should actually Decrease the handling. (Longer Time)
I will post the stats I recorded off the last build and then post what they should be / what I believe they should be.
Capped: 0% recoil, 0% handling
Folded: -20% recoil, 0% handling
Collapsible: -20% recoil, +6 handling
Fixed: -20% recoil, +8 handling
----What they should be:
Capped: 0% Recoil, +8 Handling
Folded: -10% Recoil, +4 Handling
Collapsible: -15% recoil, +2 handling
Fixed: -20% recoil, +0 handling
Short: +0% damage, +0 Handling
Medium: +5% damage, +0 Handling
Long: +10% damage, +4 handling
----What they should be:
Short: +0% damage, +6 handling
Medium: +5% damage, +0 handling
Long: +10% damage, -6 handling
-Grip vs. Bi-pod
Grips and Bi-Pods are optional, the reason you would get a grip or Bi-pod is to alter the natural state of your gun to specialize your gun to your style of play. If you’re a very balanced player the best thing you could do is avoid a Grip or a Bi-Pod. If you are a mobile combatant then the grip is for you if you are a player who plays defensively or likes to set up kill zone’s to trap enemies then the Bi-Pod is for you.
You specialize in one at the cost of the other.
Unfortunately I was unable to record definitive stats for the Grip and the Bi-pod while in cover/prone and while out of cover/prone. I mean I have some numbers but it’s obvious that their advantages are not simply a +point increase but rather percentage based, which I don’t have enough data to calculate so I will just listed what I believe should happen. I will list the item and what the item should be naturally and then what the item should be while in Cover / Prone.
-Grip: +15 Handling, -10 Accuracy, +15% Stability, -10% recoil
-Grip in cover/prone: +15 Handling, +0 Accuracy, +35% Stability, -15% recoil
-Bipod: -15 Handling, +0 Accuracy, -15% Stability, +5 Recoil
-Bipod in cover / prone: -15 Handling, +30% Accuracy, +60% Stability, -30 Recoil.
So basically using a Grip increase’s your handling, stability and ability to handle recoil while sacrificing some accuracy, but while in cover/prone you gain minimal benefits along the lines of more stability, little less recoil and neutralizes your accuracy penalty.
The Bi-pod works basically the opposite taking a penalty to handling and increased recoil while outside of cover/prone, but inside of cover you gain a +30% accuracy buff, +60% stability buff and suffer -30% less recoil.
-Scopes Vs. Red-Dot sights
I noticed while tinkering that depending on what scope / sight you use gives you a slight benefit or penalty to handling. I like this idea and think there should be more wiggle room making it more definitive allowing a player to further customize their weapons.
Scopes should provide an accuracy bonus while suffering a Handling penalty. Obviously putting a scope on a weapon shouldn't alter its ability on how accurate it shoots, just increase’s the user’s ability to be more accurate. But since this is a game and for balancing issues we can say that because a gun “Can” be shot more accurately that it is “More” Accurate. To represent this lets give scopes a slight bonus to accuracy and a penalty to handling as the gun itself is now bulkier.
Basic Scopes: -5 Handling, +3 Accuracy
Premium Scopes: -7 Handling, +7 Accuracy
With the above there can be any combination of the above with the lower end scopes suffering a less penalty to handling with only a slight bonus to accuracy with the high powered premium scopes giving big bonus to accuracy while suffering a bigger hit to handling.
Red-Dot optical sights work slightly different then scopes. Obviously Iron sights should provide the highest benefit to handling but you straight up suffer a penalty to accuracy. Putting on a Red-Dot sight puts a penalty to both Accuracy and Handling and the Premium optical sights begin to negate this penalty in both handling and accuracy.
Iron Sights: +8 Handling, -10 Accuracy
Basic Red-Dot: -2 Handling, -5 Accuracy.
Premium Red-Dot: +6 Handling, -2 Accuracy.
The thought here is putting an optical sight decrease’s your handling in an attempt to essentially neutralize your accuracy penalty and the high end premium sights would give you the best handling (shy of Iron Sights) while giving you the best chance to neutralize the accuracy penalty.
There are lots of “wish” items I would love to see in game, pistol customization, different grenades, armor color’s, Ect. Ect. My list goes on and on and I’m sure your list as a developers is even longer, so I’ll save those for the wish list in my other feedback thread. Once again guys, thank you for making an exceptional game and can’t wait to see what GRO has in store for us!
Last edited by DegenesisRein; 05-15-2012 at 12:58 PM.
GRO Community Leader
That is very well thought-out feedback. Thanks for your input! I agree with most of what you said, but I think your numbers at the end will need reworking. Pressing the Sprint key, I agree, should cancel almost anything you're doing. However, I would take your idea one step further: Don't simply cancel the reload and return the character to a sprint-ready stance, pressing the Sprint key should cancel the reload and start your character sprinting. As for your idea on Defensive Zones, I really like it, but it will require heavy testing. But, hey, that's why we're here, right?
Yup that's what I meant, by pressing the Sprint key it would cancel whatever action you were doing or dislodge you from cover/prone returning to the neutral position. Now once the Sprint key was pushed if you happened to be pressing one of the movement keys your character would begin sprinting.
thx for catching that.
This is some pretty great stuff, Crow. Thanks for taking the time to produce such a detailed analysis. Lots of interesting suggestions, here.
This is part of the game. When you go prone, you see a weapon ready timer, it looks like the reload timer. But I don't remember how long you have to wait. A weapon ready delay after getting up shouldn't be implemented imho.
Originally Posted by DegenesisRein
The handling time you are seeing here is strictly from exiting Sprint, nothing to do with going prone.
Post-Patch (Look at around 27 secs in where I belly flop with my pistol out)
Same here, only handling time is from exiting sprint. Also take note of the sliding around while shooting (heh, other issue)
There is no handling time from going Standing to Prone, the only time handling time is engaged is when you exit Sprint.
My suggestion is to put a slight penalty (Roughly 25% handling wait time) between switching from standstill or walking to prone and back and forth, as it stands people can seamlessly switch from prone to standing / Visa versa with zero interuption to firing their weapon. Slightly unrealistic.
Last edited by DegenesisRein; 05-19-2012 at 03:37 AM.
Ghost Recon Online Dev
That is quite a list you've got there, Crow. Here's my take on some of the issues raised:
On movement, we are aware that there are polish issues like you noted, so we're looking into it.
Impact grenades received the nerf, so I'm assuming you're talking about this lot. The impacts are a bit of a touchy issue because it's a fine line between being a noob tube that kills everyone without allowing them any time to react. Much as it would feel realistic to have grenades knock folks down, firstly it does overlap what the Blitz already does and moreover it's effectively an AOE knockdown now. That's probably not much fun for players that wind up spamming the grenade, so I would be very careful about such features. For a touch of background, the original grenade balance was basically insta-kill within a small radius, but it just felt rather like an M203 round. Moreover, it was impact triggered, so the victims rarely had the chance to react. That wasn't fun, and in the hands of skilled players they basically outclassed every other weapon. The rebalance helped tone down the insta-kill capabilities while making the grenades easier to use. Regardless, we're watching the grenade saga as it unfolds, so things don't get too far off the mark =p
Speaking about gun balance, what you're talking about is actually a UI calculation bug, which we're working on rectifying. Basically, the barrels work as follows: Short barrels handle best, but have more recoil. Medium barrels are balanced in that. Long barrels are heaviest and slowest, but have less recoil. So you're not too far off the mark with your observations. You hit the nail on the head with the foregrip attachments, where bipods are effectively the polar opposites of the vertical grips. This design was intended to create meaningful tradeoffs between the two, so that players with specific gameplay styles can tune their weapons to perform the way they want em to.
As for scopes, well the weapon system needs to stay balanced as far as is possible, and having accuracy buffs on scopes has the potential to unbalance things somewhat. We've tried it before, and found an interesting effect. So assume that a red dot has a percentage accuracy buff. That buff works fine on a submachinegun, which makes the scope rather desirable. Unfortunately, on a shotgun, it tipped the spread into something quite undesirable for a buckshot spraying weapon. Of course, we are constantly exploring tweaks that can make the game more fun, while doing our best to ensure that the game remains fair for all players.
Thanks for the feedback, and keep it comin =p
Thanks for the reply and feedback explaining your throught process and reasoning behind GRO as is and where you want the end result of GRO to be.
Can't wait for the next build and the continued development to make GRO the best **** shooter out there.