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Thread: Ways SC6 could reconcile Conviction and the old games styles | Forums

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    Senior Member BoBwUzHeRe1138's Avatar
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    Ways SC6 could reconcile Conviction and the old games styles

    So how can you appease gameplay elements from all the games? I'll do my best as a classic SC enthusiast to do so. I know there have been gameplay ideas for SC6 before but this was my attempt at mixing pretty much every aspect together ina seamless blend.

    First of all. Let's put the game back into covert ops and not Bourne styled conspiracies and on-the-run mentality. He wasn't a Splinter Cell...don't call it Splinter Cell. As long as you keep the name it has to involve covert ops.

    Okay. So we keep the PEC system of challenges (snap 10 guys necks from a hanging position, for example) and you can unlock upgrades and new weapons. Instead of picking up a weapon and having to carry it to a weapon ache...there won;t be any. If you want to switch weapons in-game you can and if you beat the mission with the new weapon it'll be added to your inventory. Alternatively....you can perform PEC challenges and purchase a weapon before you encounter it in the game. That reminds me...the game needs to have intricate levels that are plot-heavy and the length of the entire game needs to be looooong.

    The krav maga will return albeit in a different function. If you are caught and the guards are currently attacking you/looking for you...you can krav maga to take them out. Alternatively you can equip the knife for your default loadout you can use that. Brutal interrogations would be in each mission or at least most and sometimes lutiple times but the majority of interrogations would be random guards again. The weapons you find will be pretty much 50/50 stealthy and assault. The stealth ones such as the SC-3000 will come with a silencer as a default thing while others will be an assault rifle with the ability to upgrade it into a silenced version. However by the end, the weapons will be 50/50. That means if you collect every weapon without upgrading them....it'd be closer to 30/70 stealth and assault respectively. Before each mission you can outfit yourself with varying weapons (not your skin during your first playthrough) but once you've beaten a mission, you can go back and play it with any skin.

    Mark and execute would return. WHA? How can one of the major things that changes the difficulty return? Well the SC-3000 (the slimmed down cousin of the SC-20k) can now fire different types of NL and lethal rounds. This includes Ring Airfoils, sticky shockers, sticky cams (stealthy-gas or assault-explosive varieties depending on preference), grenades (gas, smoke, frag, emp, etc.), camera--hackers: provides an even stealthier, yet easier and perhaps slightly unrealistic way to take out cameras that is practically noiseless...simply fire one at an active camera and you can play the hacking mini-game to turn it offline permanently. This means rather than shooting one which creates a fairly noisy sound for guards nearby, it's is almost perfectly silent. Now to the M&E....trackers. What you do is you load the trackers into the SC-3000 and when you fire one at an enemy it'll track them. While you won't be able to execute them like you can in SCC it allows you to keep an eye on them easily even through walls.

    Switching and taking out your weapon will be as quick as it is in SCC rather than the slowness of the originals. The cover system will also be similar. You hold down the left trigger and for as long as you hold it you will be against the wall. You can hug a wall either crouched or standing as well. Target reticule depending on difficulty will either be Conviction style where it has less spread even when fully running while on harder difficulties you have to have even better and better aim like you had to have in the originals. On the SC-3000 as well as the Five-SeveN, there is an emp jammer like in CT or DA for cameras. The attachments from CT return and can be used in place of a gadget. This also allows those who want to run and gun the ability to have multiple guns for different uses: sniping, shotgun, silenced assault, etc. As I said, the knife can be used or you can use krav maga depending on preference. the knife is extremely efficient and quick while krav maga is freaking badass but a little slower.
    Alarms are present but will not fail you out of the mission. They will increase enemy alert levels but instead of sitting put, they will actively search for you for the rest of the mission, allowing for aggro-stealth cat and mouse gameplay.

    When using a gun, you can easily run in third person as you can in SCC unlike the originals which dramatically slowed you down. LKP is present as it has been since the first game but there is no longer an LKP 'ghost' like in SCC...I mean have some faith in the players -- it's not that hard to figure out where they last saw you...or where they believe you're at. I didn't need it in the first, second, third, or fourth games...I don't need it now and it clutters the screen. Bring back the Y button as the atheletics option. Still have many surfaces that can be climbed on like SCC but slow the climbing to a realistic speed. If even young Ezio can;t climb across ledges as quickly as an older man like Sam Fisher and he has what is presumably alien ancestors? Then no. Stop that. Aiming mechanic should be like SCC but with scoped weapons instead of immediately going into the scope it does the "slight 3rd person zoom" present with every gun, clicking it again willzoom in, once more and it goes out. Every door can be bacshed down but some are locked and can be picked or the lock can be hacked in case you want to go stealthy. The A button will be the action again such as picking up weapons and equipment and items like soda cans, and Y will be to jump over things, vault, etc.
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    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Three things which would solve a majority of the complaints and which SC6 MUST have:

    1. Variable Speed- speed affecting your aural signature

    2. Sharper AI hearing- So the above actually comes into play and the AI is more sensitive...requiring a bit more care when sneaking up or when shooting their buddy 10 feet away from them.

    3. Less-than-lethal options- Nuff said

    The addition of the above alone would add much greater depth to the stealth gameplay AND allow the players to play the classic way of sneaking around Legacy SC style while still preserving the aggro stealth gameplay...as evidenced by Deus Ex Human Revolution. It blends aggro and classic stealth very well. So when you silently clear a room using silenced headshots and multiple takedowns you feel badazz...conversely, when you sneak around, evade 5 guys, hack into a camera to disable it and get into a facility...you feel badazz.

    I also like how DXHR handled variable speed....run around at the standard speed and the AI hears you if you're near enough...sprint and it hears you outright...walk or crouch and you're completely silent..BUT the beauty of this was that the crouch speed was always faster than the AI patrolling speed....this enabled the player to sneak up and KO guards and at the same time maintained the mechanical depth of variable speed. A nice and simple blend of classic and aggro mechanics.

    If I had to add another thing, I would go for Hacking.
    Last edited by shobhit7777777; 05-14-2012 at 12:36 PM.



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    Senior Member Jazz117Volkov's Avatar
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    What Shobhit saidbut also (I know this is about legacy stuff, but the only way onwards is forwards so...)

    Pick it UP!

    The tech was designed in 2007.
    I would love to be able to manipulate the environment to create my own shadows, or just move desks and stuff to effectively take your cover with you, against line of sight (think Snake's box) and bullets.
    Obviously improvise weapons, or create distractions. Heck, hacking a soda machine to retrieve near limitless bottles would spawn hilarity for sure.
    The freedom to pick up and throw enemy weapons would also make great distractions.

    Execute the nade!

    I remember seeing in the E3 2009 Trailer, Sam throws a flash grenade and shoots it--an M&E variation that allowed us to shoot thrown objects/gadgets/grenades would be awesome. (dunno if a nade would go off from a bullet impact, but I ain't about to try it so...)

    Counter moves!
    I'm done with being 100% offensive--my operative needs some 'defense' capability. Think of it, we're doing battle with pros at least some of the time, so they should attempt to use "takedowns" on us, right? So press the magic bu!ton before it's too late and you 'counter' his takedown, thus he falls head-over-heels in love with the pavement. Would add such a new dynamic and wouldn't make you (me) feel like such a useless **** when a proximity encounter goes sideways. Higher stakes though... screw it up and yo done for. But I would like!

    Hacking .2
    The more I think about it, the more I want the singleplayer to involve 'mini games' (in a word/s)
    Imagine if you're hacking a computer--once the hack is done, you're finished? No. Quite the contrary actually. Some would probably consider it mundane, but then why does puzzle games sell so well? Anyway, think of a neat 'puzzle' in which you're required to gather data fragments from a 'maze' and assemble a complete message/image etc. It wouldn't have to be super complex, but it would be one (rewarding) way to uncover the next piece of the 'story' puzzle.

    Self Awareness
    I would enjoy a HQ for the AI. Similar to the MGS games.
    If a dude doesn't check in--for whatever reason you've brought about--a replacement/investigation will be sent out.
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    Senior Member BoBwUzHeRe1138's Avatar
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    Shobit...YES! YES! YES! If they can just find a way to build the game around a "classic" experience thus preserving what made splinter cell, well splinter cell....and then they add the aggro-stealth in after (without making it simply tacked on) then that'd be perfect. Give me classic styled maps where I can go NL on everyone if I want, where I can 100% ghost should I want and never once have to fire my gun. REWARD stealth. REWARD the old players. But at the same time REWARD those who are silent predators who love taking out every enemy from the shadows, freaking the AI out, and quikcly take out their targets in brutal and bad *** ways. As for those who COD it all the way through,. Penalize them. lol

    That's why alarms should be there but you don't have to pay attention to them if you don't want. You can hide bodies but you don't have to. As for shooting grenades....c'mon...really? I'm trying to keep it realistic while still promoting the best aspects of SCCand SCCT.Shooting things in midair that are the size of a grenade....idk...seems too matrix for me. But screw it, add it in, as long as the game doesn't force me to use it nor makes it an integral part...I'll be fine.

    Self Awareness would be pretty sweet but I feel that it would speed the game up and once again prevent classic players from enjoying the game. If they don't check in, the guards now get scared...yknow? That's the point but that also means you;d have to take everyone out quickly before they get suspicious. That means players would be forced to either just ghost the whole thing or quikcly kill everyone...I love the classic gameplay but I rarely ghosted through a mission. I believe having that as a variable setting for D-Ops would be legit though.

    DA had the unique hacking....or well things that could be used more frequently: first of all the safe cracking would be great as would lockpicking. But does anyone remember in the 360 version in one of the JBA HQ missions Emile wants you to decipher some number cube thing? They could add similar things in for hacking certain things.
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    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Self Awareness
    I would enjoy a HQ for the AI. Similar to the MGS games.
    If a dude doesn't check in--for whatever reason you've brought about--a replacement/investigation will be sent out.
    It could work you know...It would incentivize a more classic approach as players would avoid contact. It can be used in certain sections of the campaign as a plausible reason to be totally stealthy...for aggro players, more enemies means a target rich environment
    Definitely should be available as an option atleast.



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    Senior Member Jazz117Volkov's Avatar
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    Nah, shooting nade size stuff at close range wouldn't be too much of a stretch for a pro marksman. Just think of the chaps who shoot clay-pidgins with rifles (not shotguns)
    The kind of thing I'd be going for is it'd let you set your own traps. At the moment you only have about three ways to enter an execution: DFA, H2H or a manual headshot then execute.
    This would spice things up by allowing you to DFA while lining up a nade toss, soon as your victim is down you throw the grenade and then do the execute (thing) at the 'right' time (need to make sure the nade goes off in the right place) and that could take care of two/three guys, then your execute continues to either mess with some skulls or other environmental 'traps'
    That's just an example, but you get the idea. It allows us to do 'more' things with the abilities we know our agents have.

    I dunno if I'd say 'self awareness' would speed it up. I think it'd just change things and force you to adapt to a dynamic enemy, as appose to sneaking through static AI with completely predictable reactions. Think of it like this, different enemy types respond to missing personnel differently, and change their behavior depending on the degree of suspicious you have evoked.

    As far as missing personnel go:
    - Low level goons just get mad at their buddy for not checking in, or skipping guard duty w/e
    - Security guards and stuff would become suspicious and you'd 'hear' them talking about a missing man/men on the radio, but other then slightly more edgy sentries there wouldn't be a problem.
    - Pros will know something is up and immediately begin a search, send backup etc.

    The AI should only go into a 'scared' phase if either the body is found, or other evidence of your intrusion has been found. This would be where that dynamic behavior comes into it. The AI could change their routines, patrol speed, less groupings/conversations, more 'random' turning around (predictable if you know he's suspicious)
    Be a nice way to enforce 'stealth' too, as the AI would treat your presence as contagious and have a backup team ready for your next arrival. Say if you botch an area and get spotted/shot at they will be onto you in every other area where something suspicious happens. This would be a nice change-up from the AI not knowing the guys in the neighboring room were firing G36 assault rifles and shotguns, lol

    EDIT: haha, yeah what Shobhit said too. When you're pro at the game and just want to sit back and rip into some baddies, the game would supply your with near limitless cannon fodder in the form of back-up teams and sentry replacements. Be a lot less of this get-to-the-next-level-as-zuba-fast-as-pozzible nonsense too.
    Last edited by Jazz_117; 05-15-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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  7. #7
    Have difficulty settings that change what features are available to you during gameplay, not just how smart enemies are or how many there are.

    For example:

    "Rookie"
    • Mark & Execute is enabled.
    • Last Known Position is enabled.
    • Infinite pistol ammunition is enabled.
    • Detection arrows are enabled.*
    • Moving from cover to cover is enabled.
    • Health regeneration is enabled.
    • Button prompts are enabled.


    "Veteran"
    • Mark & Execute is enabled.
    • Last Known Position is disabled.
    • Infinite pistol ammunition is disabled.
    • Detection arrows are enabled.
    • Moving from cover to cover is enabled.
    • Health regeneration is enabled.
    • Button prompts are enabled.


    "Splinter Cell"
    • Mark & Execute is disabled.
    • Last Known Position is disabled.
    • Infinite pistol ammunition is disabled.
    • Detection arrows are disabled.
    • Moving from cover to cover is disabled.
    • Health regeneration is disabled.
    • Button prompts are disabled.


    You would be able to go back and change these settings manually under gameplay options on the main menu.

    Notes:

    In case you're confused, a detection arrow is this.



    Disabling it means the white reticule and arrows won't show when you're about to be detected by the enemy. The sound effect will still play, but there will be no graphical indicator.

    Disabling Mark & Execute will replace those two button functions with something else, one of them could be to whistle.

    Disabling the ability to move from cover to cover still allows you to take cover and move alongside it, but you can't move between covers by aiming and pressing A. You have to cross the distance yourself and risk being seen by the enemy.

    Disabling health regeneration will mean that if you're injured then you'll stay injured and there will be no medkits to heal either.

    "Button prompts" are those things at the bottom of the screen that say "Press B to Kill" or "Press A to Jump". In Conviction, they're always turned on so you know when to press B to kill, when to jump etc. But if you choose to turn those off then you don't know and that adds a layer of tension.
    Last edited by The_5_Freedoms; 05-15-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    @5th Freedom

    Why would you disable optional mechanics? Plus alot of those are there for player convenience....disabling them would lead to "Rage Quit" difficulty.
    Thats like a boxer breaking his fingers to make a fight more difficult...instead of fighting a smarter, stronger opponent.

    I don't know about you...but I find that disabling HUD, UI elements and Health regen doesn't increase the challenge...it just makes the game difficult to play and enjoy. Its a hollow kind of challenge playing with all those off IMO

    I'd rather they massively smarten up the AI and allow them to really hunt the player down...that ways players are challenged when sneaking about yet when the **** does hit the fan it takes skill to combat the AI...actual challenge



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    Senior Member sameer_monier's Avatar
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    ^^ I agree with Shobhit, disabling all that stuff isn't cool at all, some can be disabled yeah like infinite ammo, LKP, but M&E ?!, C2C ?!, why ?!, again as Shobhit said no need to disable optional stuff.


    I would like to make a suggestion that I am pretty sure won't be in SC6 anyway LOL
    3rd Echelon, or Operation Base, where Sam can walk around, use his eye/finger to go through high security places, can get to shooting range, interact with analyst about the mission and the objectives, more intel that is, I really liked the shooting range in DA, and playing to take out the high score from whoever had the highest one was actually amazing.

    Share your ideas with me on SC6 "if you love Conviction" Part 1, Part 2, Part 3
    Spin Offs Ideas
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  10. #10
    @ shobhit

    "Why would you disable optional mechanics? Plus alot of those are there for player convenience....disabling them would lead to "Rage Quit" difficulty.
    Thats like a boxer breaking his fingers to make a fight more difficult...instead of fighting a smarter, stronger opponent."
    Bragging rights, I suppose. Maybe there could be an achievement for completing the entire game without certain features enabled. I don't understand why you think it would be frustrating and make people ragequit when I said "You would be able to go back and change these settings manually under gameplay options on the main menu."
    Nobody is forcing them to not use (?) something. They're encouraged to choose for themselves what they want, the three listed settings are like templates. You can change the template to fit you. It's not set in stone. They're mainly for the benefit of people who haven't played before and I'm sure Ubisoft wants to increase the brand awareness and playerbase.

    EDIT: Coming back to this comment from later ones confuses me. If a feature is optional then how would disabling it make the game feel hollow? Wouldn't not using a feature also feel hollow?

    "I don't know about you...but I find that disabling HUD, UI elements and Health regen doesn't increase the challenge...it just makes the game difficult to play and enjoy. Its a hollow kind of challenge playing with all those off IMO"
    I guess we have differing opinions on what constitutes a challenge. For me, a challenge is a game that is difficult to play. The other games didn't even have those features and they didn't feel hollow from it. Conviction benefited greatly from a minimal HUD.

    "I'd rather they massively smarten up the AI and allow them to really hunt the player down...that ways players are challenged when sneaking about yet when the **** does hit the fan it takes skill to combat the AI...actual challenge"
    Okay then if increased AI difficulty was available along with more options (enable/disable M&E, enable/disable LKP, etc.) that'd be cool.
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