3E Eclipse or Shadow Armor? | Forums

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Well said Hastings. People who say "you can ghost through SCC!" or "SCC can be played in a classic style" clearly have NOT played the classic games or are speaking directly out their a$$. Parts can be played in a semi-classic style. he D-Ops DLC missions more than anything but a few parts in the single player campaign. But the game was centered around engaging the enemy, hence the ability to Mark and Execute which even if we say is a "stealth" mechanic...let's not kid ourselves. It directly engages the enemy n combat, something we were taught to only do when need be in the first game. Our gun was our last resort. So the game is designed around getting the player into situations where they have to fight, engage, and (hopefully...from the perspective of the creators) mark&execute. :l

[SolidSage]

Button mash? I don't think that was ever an effctive way to resolve detection in SCC. If you're referring to CQC, well you gotta get close enough for that, and M&E requires an initial marking of several targets. Then if you just try to shoot it out you have a task on your hands at higher difficulties. I wll say the snap to head shots were uneccessary though.

I don't think SCC was designed around M&E, there were certainly AI routes that were optimized to allow for it's use but I have played through this game so many times in hard stealth mode that I am certain that stealth is fully incorporated. Yes, it doesn't allow full ghosting of the entire game which is a request I find to be somewhat unrealistic of any fan that also wants there to be some real story development, outside of the "bad guys doing something bad but we stop them without them ever seeing us. The end" type tale.
In truth, stealthing through SCC is much harder than Legacy SC and of course the assault methoud WOULD be easier. What SCC did wrong, is fail to incorporate some of the micro tools that allow for a more rpg'ish experience..picking locks, moving bodies, reading emails etc. The biggest flaws in basic mechanics was the absence of variable speed, non lethals and dense audible gameplay. Other than that, the experience could be enjoyed in a very similar fashion to the older games.

As always with SCC, the argument usually comes down to the choices the Player was given, and the player's Choice to take the bait for easier game play. incorporating a system similar to AC's synch, that rewarded players in some way for embracing the stealth aspect would have been a good way to motivate players and highlight how good the stealth actually is in SCC.
I'll go look for the thread I started about minimal kills and non detection. Bascially, with effort, gun fights can be a avoided all the way up through the end of Yastreb Complex. Mozdok is the true shootout section.

[kalle90]

I'm surprised that the last posts on a thread about costumes is once again about stealth mechanics. Anyway I think the term overcontrolling summarises the game excellently. Invisible walls and unclimbable low objects are the worst, but lethal cqcs and set pieces are very apparent too.

Sure you can stealth much of the game, but it's just not satisfying in the least atleast to me. Stealth is simplified and focus has shifted towards fast-paced action. The developer comment "In previous games getting noticed was the end of the game, here it is just the start of the game" is tragically true and I fail to see how it is any positive. Sure the stealth in Conviction is often more challenging, but mostly it's unstable ranging from super easy to impossible. It's also like saying stealthing through COD is more challenging.

[sameer_monier]

^^ Fast Paced Stealth (not action)

[SolidSage]

I agree with Sameer that is more of a change to fast paced stealth vs action. Most of the mandatory action is attributable to the story, and not the mechanics. I found the stealth challenge to be very rewarding but I was never a fan of the required wait and observe approach, I prefer engaging the routes and merging with them rather than hopping in between them.
Leaving AI alive and having to navigate their intersecting routes is a good challenge, much more so than following a lone guard and waiting for that blind spot moment to take advantage of.

You're right about it being off topic almost, except for my view that using the Shadow suit sans armor allows you to be more stealthy! Well it should anyway.

[kalle90]

Action is general term. I could have said shooter or combat-oriented. The game is fast paced and usually the best route is to tag and execute enemies and finish the job with infinite pistol bullets. You are a panther and all that blaa blaa. If that isn't action I don't know what is.

But it's just a case of agree to disagree. I don't enjoy the new stealth at all, especially single player is agony from start to end, but apparently many do. I rather play Human Revolution for my stealth fix.

[sameer_monier]

well who said killing an enemy by M&E =/= Stealth, this is so wrong, when you kill silently then it is stealth, as long as you keep yourself hidden, not known, then you are stealthy.
Killing someone with a Knife from the dark is stealth, Breaking someone's neck from above is stealth

What you seem to be talking about is Ghosting, which is a type of Stealth, Stealth is a big name.

And as I used to say "Dead Men tell No Tales"


oh and DE:HR is an amazing game, finished it a month ago or something, totally awesome.

[kalle90]

Stealth is also a very general term. When I kill people in an FPS with sniper without getting noticed I don't feel stealthy, atleast in the way I'd like to.

I wouldn't use the term ghosting either, because usually when playing the older SCs I also kill and KO people, so I'm not exactly a fan of being 100% unnoticeable either. It's hard to explain, but to think about Deus Ex I'd say it's about freedom and consequence, which kinda contradict each other. Freedom in that I usually have multiple routes and methods at disposal, but consequence in that I have very limited ammo and it's possible to get stuck in a bad position, still with ways out. Avoiding alarms completely, crawling in vents, dragging the necessary bodies out of view and ghosting are all small things that eases up the game and makes stealth feel in-depth.

Anyway with me disliking the SP thorougly, considering Co-op meh and still thinking Deniable Ops is rather good it's hard to pinpoint what's the issue.

[sameer_monier]

Regarding Future SC titles, especially if one takes place in 2015/2020 (probably SC7), what do you guys think of this Uniform ?!



we will need a Futuristic version of the SC3000 of course, I remember people talking about a version of it in EndWar but I can't remember it's name.

TBH I like the model to a degree, it is Slim yet Armored, with OPSAT, enough Ammo/Gadgets Pockets, there some tubes entering his mask probably Oxygen for diving ?!, so yeah I like it for a 2020 Suit.

It can go well with Ghost Recon in the Future in 2020 (cause the GRFS we are getting may probably be in 2015 or something) and I hope if the next GR (GRFS2) is in 2020, I hope they bring back the future look





and of course the future weapons too



It is not a far shot, especially that the Ghosts in the movie Ghost Recon Alpha used the same Attire, so here is a hoping.


And sorry for the large pics

[hastings84]

I like it, and it looks really cool. But I think I'd hate that, in a Splinter Cell game. Because with advanced uniforms like that, in a game, I bet they'd want to implement futuristic gadgets and gear - which, in gaming - translates to hand-holding gameplay elements and "easy ways to win".

In my mind, Splinter Cell gear should be minimalistic. I don't see how one can sneak, with a big, complex uniform like that. Tac-pants, t-shirt, vest, and a few tac-pouches. What's so wrong about that? Oh wait, Splinter Cells are now combat squads, sorry.