05-12-2012, 07:09 PM
Yeah it quit being about "how to score" a few pages back, and became about "why" and "I don't like it". None of which matter, for this thread. They should be addressed in the issues thread.
05-12-2012, 07:14 PM
Sorry folks, I was really not trying to derail the thread. Just wanted to get a better idea why it made sense to keep the scoring windows for 'normal' groove favoring the early side by so much.
05-12-2012, 07:33 PM
That's not quite my point. My point is why penalize a casual player who is playing exactly on time according to the notes he or she sees on the highway, just because that person refuses (or isn't technically savvy enough) to spend the time dialing in the video lag?
Originally Posted by KinchBlade
It's not about "playing correctly" except for those very few people who are good enough to control their timing well enough and have the know-how and desire to correct perfectly for their video lag. The larger window for early groove was designed to reward people for playing correctly, but who, for whatever reason, don't have their video lag correction exactly right. The fact that it can be "abused" by people whose priority is points rather than playing in time isn't really relevant, because--and here's the important point--it affects nothing and no one if some folks can "cheat." On the other hand, the beginners and the technically challenged end up being penalized if the system is changed.
So, er, in keeping with the established themes, neener.
PS: what's wrong with conversations evolving? I'd say a discussion of how scoring should work is integral to a discussion of how it does work.
05-12-2012, 08:02 PM
I think they'd be penalized because, if their video lag weren't exactly dialed in, it creates a situation where they'd be playing exactly according to the notes on the screen but not getting groove credit due to a disconnect caused by their brand of TV. Doesn't seem fair to me. Whereas the, "I can't resist the urge to play early to maximize my score, even though I know it's bad technique, and RS should fix it so I don't have to exercise self-discipline," angle leaves me pretty unsympathetic.
05-12-2012, 08:19 PM
ack. I'm sorry in advance again, last post for a while since I'm going biking
Originally Posted by Steel_Nirvana
Let's say there are 3 people:
1) person who doesn't configure lag, but has essentially no lag system (component and headphones like the manual suggests for best performance)
2) person who doesn't configure lag, but has some lag in their system
3) person who does configure lag, has lag in their system, but now the game can treat the person as person 1 since the lag is corrected for
If the groove window were centerred around "on time" both person 1 and 3 would be getting the benefit of the scoring system without needing to play ahead. The person 2 would be getting the benefit of "early groove" bonuses depending on how far off their lag is.
I'm not sure why you'd want to penalize person 1 and 3 whose systems are properly set up to help out 2 who is someone who you mentioned probably isn't a score monger anyhow and doesn't even care enough to set up their system for the issue.
I would rather people who care about playing on time and who have tuned the game to get their maximum scores when they are completely playing on time.
05-12-2012, 09:18 PM
Seattle, I think you're confusing audio lag and video lag. The lag adjustment in RS is to correct the delay caused by the monitor's refresh rate. It was a bigger factor in early generations of LCD monitors, that could cause the video to be out of sync with the audio. Newer, gaming-specific LCDs often have single-digit response times. With my front-projection system, for example, my video lag is somewhere on the order of 20-30ms if I want the audio and video synced on-screen. Due to the bug mentioned, though, I get better scores with lag set to 0, even though that puts the video out of sync with the audio on screen.
Also, I'd ask how your theoretical Persons 1 & 3 are in any way penalized. Nothing is forcing them to play early. Whereas, in your scenario, Person 2 could be playing perfectly in time to their display and not get any groove bonuses due to the lag correction not being dialed in. I'd consider that a penalty.
05-13-2012, 07:21 PM
Yeah, pretty sure I know the difference between video and audio lag, and my system does have video lag. It's the first thing I calibrate with any of the rhythm games I've bought since Guitar Hero 2. I actually often play RS through headphones to minimize the audio lag, so video lag becomes the variable I'm most interested in calibrating for on my system.
Anyhow, I'm not going to press this particular point any further. I agree with what Kinch said above in terms of how a rewards system should work. I'm glad that they are at least going to fix the lag calibration part of this even though I do not agree with Early Groove (especially how big the early groove window is vs. regular groove), and the timing window not being centerred around the correct timing for regular groove.
I understand you dissagree, and.. that's ok. We've kinda beaten this one a bit too much.
05-13-2012, 08:46 PM
Sorry about the confusion; the configuration options you mention sound like audio lag. Video lag doesn't have anything to do with cables or speakers, or anything.
05-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Totally see why that was confusing: that was my bad. While I know what video lag is (and wouldn't confuse it with audio lag) I am not an AV guy, so I made the assumption that component signals somehow required less video processing ahead of display when compared to a 1080p HDMI signal which would result in less video lag (even if the set had a 'game mode' enabled), seems that was a bad assumption. Looking back at the Rocksmith recommended setup it does say best is video over HDMI, and audio via external speakers.
Originally Posted by Steel_Nirvana
I do have an older LCD TV connected via HDMI... That said it does have a game mode, so now you have me wondering why I'm seeing video lag to begin with...
In my example I was just using person 1 to be the person with the absolute best setup possible relating to lag. Sorry for the confusion there.
05-13-2012, 09:38 PM
No problem at all. AFAIK, video lag is strictly a function of the draw time of the display. If your TV has a game mode, it might list a "Response Time" stat. With computer monitors, it's usually listed right along with the resolution.