So Magic Abilities Cost Mana, but Might abilities cost nothing?! | Forums

[Solvaring]

Seems to me like the magic heroes are getting the shat end of the deal!!!

Can anyone explain this? Do might abilities cost anything that I'm not noticing? Maybe might abilities eat away at the player's soul as recompense?

[broui]

Not sure I've ever heard anyone question the logic of Mana cost before.

Might is muscle, strength, the ability to fight.

Magic is finite until restored. One may improve their skills, increase their capacity for magic, but it is not in infinite quantity.

That's the simplistic argument, anyway.

[Solvaring]

Let me rephrase the question, I understand the concept of mana and spells. I've played many games of Dungeons and Dragons as well as myriads of computer games.

Generally though in other games i've played, martial characters expend some kind of finite resource such as 'focus' or 'stamina' to use their abilities.

I'm not questioning why spells cost mana or the concept of mana itself. I'm wondering what might abilities cost, it seems they cost nothing, why?

[Laboomsikashod]

I guess they only cost the hero's turn in combat. It does seem to throw might and magic out of balance, might heroes have not only superior Attack, Defence and better combat-related passive abilities, they also get free active abilities to use in battle to further support their troops.

[prince_c4spi4n]

How do I put this? I think might castables not costing anything other than an action is quite fair as each faction in MMH6 has a "might" and "magic" class hero. Already, might heroes have lesser mana than their magic counterparts and most of the time they also have to invest some skill points in learning some magic spells (regen, heal, life drain anyone?). Vice versa, sometimes magic heroes do invest in might castables. Suppose if might castables also cost mana then this would really weaken the might class and make the magic class terribly overpowered since they're the only ones who will probably be able to afford all the costs of casting them. To further balance things up, might and magic cannot learn each other's tier 3 skills. A magic tier 3 easily costs around 25% of a might hero's mana - what would happen if a tier 3 might castable also cost the same?

For those who moved on from the previous Heroes, the might and magic class distinction was not in HOMM5 - you'd only get a "Necromancer" if you played Necro or "Knight" if Haven and automatically you had to go magic for Necromancer and might for Knight because "that's how things are, Haven is might oriented". The skill wheel and those OP last abilities always made it a must for heroes to go a certain skill path. HOMM4 on the other hand, had a similar might-magic distinction, but the "might" hero usually couldn't cast anything - he was merely a super fighter (HOMM4 heroes fight directly in battle) or a moving gold mine. The devs probably wanted the might class to actually be able to make a difference in battle.

I guess this constitutes an apologetic defense of MMH6 features.

[lomvartus]

Magic supposed to be flexible. thus the mana, to choose wisely what u will cast. but...
You cast one might ability that u bought it by spending -1- skill point and
You cast one magic ability that u bought it by spending -1- skill point
Difference of above? after battle as might u can do endless other battles. as magic u are drained... and u need to rest for days to be able to make one more battle,...

ok - u can say spells are overpowered!! Damage spells are worthless.. the only spells u can use are vampiric bite and the healing ones. while might has the awesome counterstrike -passive-..

The might and magic skills need to get reworked. it is nice idea but not balanced. It works so far but at the end you have a 1-template might hero and 1-template magic hero.

[KaeYoss]

There is some serious magic mojo out there. Counterstrike and Cleave and so on are awesome, and Reinforcements rocks, but magic has its own nice stuff:

Time Stasis is simply godlike. Freeze some sucker and he gets to just stand there and be pummeled for 2 - 4 rounds. Major league nasty, that. If it's a neutral army consisting of a simple stack, you can phone in the fight and still beat up a really powerful enemy. Even against enemy heroes, it's tremendously useful - either take down his most powerful foe and save him for later, or wait until there is only one enemy stack, freeze it, and take your time healing and regenerating your troops back to strength while the hero has to watch you do it.

Then there are the various healing spells, which a magic hero can more easily afford, and which are, in many ways, more useful than Reinforcements.

Summon X Elemental. Instant blocker. And you can Reinforce them. I found light elementals to be particularly useful - their retaliations shoot rays in all 8 cardinal directions - hurting enemies and healing your own troops. Enemy got the drop on you and attacked a stack before you could do stuff? Strategically place light elementals and watch the enemy rip himself apart while HE heals de damage he has done. Bwahahahaha! Sucker...

There's also lots of spells that let you take over an enemy or otherwise dictate his actions, or alternately take them out of the picture for a while. Collect them all and really piss off the enemy.

Those are just the highlights. There are lots of nice spells. Sure, some are crap, but a lot of might skills are crap, too.

[KaeYoss]

Concerning mana without equivalent might resource: While there are some games out there that have "might mana", a lot more don't. Physical abilities are usually automatic or at will, or maybe sometimes have a daily limit (where daily can also mean per fight or turn or whatever).

It's not as if Heroes VI is a lot different there. You get Cleave once per fight, can activate Reinforcements and Heroic Charge once per fight, and other stuff like Pressed Attack has cooldowns (that are always longer than their duration), so you cannot use them all at once all the time, either.

Basically, at-will physical and mana-costing magical is the classical approach, and I'd wager that it is a lot more common than other systems like D&D 4e's at-will encounter and daily powers, earlier D&D's spell preparation (and occasionally alternate resource points like Ki power), or stress-inducing magic like the Dresden Files RPG (well, Evocation induces stress, i.e. damage. Thaumaturgy doesn't necessarily, but it takes lots of time and isn't useful if a monster is right about to eat your face).