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Rocksmith 2014 Edition - The Smashing Pumpkins' "Cherub Rock"

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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel_Nirvana View Post
    IIRC, that song requires an almost perfect run to master. Most folks report you can miss one note, but usually not two.
    That would be if you got no groove bonuses the entire song. While you can't get any during the palm mutes, you can get a bunch during the choruses to allow you to miss more than a handful. Even if perfection were required though, I feel that anyone who ran it in the accelerator until they could do both sections several times in a row at 100%, would easily master the song on their playthrough (barring stage fright?). I say this not to be arrogant or anything, but because you literally keep the same hand position the entire song, it is fairly slow, and once you master both riffs there are no surprises or transitions to worry about.

    I got it!! See new thread on the main page.
    Congrats! I see in your thread that the problem involved you not noticing an extra note in the base riff. I figured there must have been something else to the difficulty you were having in mastering it besides your actual skill level (compared to your previously mastered songs.)

    I think it also supports my theory that variation in a songs note chart vs non-variation / more or less transitions / speed / etc, are more closely related to difficulty than the perfection required in mastering a song. Sometimes the two will go hand in hand though (solos like in "sunshine of your love" are difficult, varied, filled with rapid transitions and difficult bends, along with a fast-paced speed accompanying them, AND require a high % of correct notes to level)

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    I had a lot of trouble mastering "well ok honey" and "pumped up kicks", despite them being simple songs. HOWEVER, i would NOT mark these as difficult because of that-- the main issue was the fact that I hadn't exactly mastered the chords in the "bridge" or "breakdown" kinds of parts in the songs. In other words, if I really sat there until I could hit those parts at least 3 times in a row, at 100% speed, I would've mastered them earlier, despite the incredibly high % required to get 100k (it took 98% of notes hit to get 100.5k on "pumped up kicks" combo 1...)

    Pumped up kicks I think is kind of an exception to the rule, however, simply because palm mutes don't give any groove bonuses-- so there literally is a ton of less room for error, especially with the fast chords they throw at you after playing two thirds of the song. But again, if I had mastered them first (which I still have yet to hit 100% of them consistently), I can see it being much easier, despite the high % of accuracy demanded.

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    I know this is all subjective, but one last example I have behind my thinking is "This Love" by Maroon 5. It's another "easy song" that's somewhat difficult to master (or was), but when I forced myself to sit down and hit the chorus chord section at least 5 times in a row, at 100% speed, I mastered it the first time I played it. Also chords tend to have more leniency ability because they can register extremely late at times and also register when you blatantly hit the wrong chord (but are in a nearby area), while fast solo's often require more precise timing and note accuracy.

    Thus I would rate songs mainly filled with difficult chords more easy than songs with rapid-fire varied solos (carol of the bells solo 2, painkiller-- a lot of the solos-- hangar 18 - lot of the solos) etc.

    These are kind of extreme examples, but if you were to ask me to compare two songs in difficulty, I could probably explain it better why I would think one is more difficult than the other (though I'm not sure anyone would care ) Just my 2cents
    Last edited by xxalucard; 05-05-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member JTCoop's Avatar
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    Yeah - that's why I was so frustrated with this song! I felt like I had it nailed but I just couldn't get the 100k! I mean, obviously if I can master Surf Hell, I ought to be able to play I Can't Hear You. . . but I just couldn't! It was driving me crazy. So, I just quit playing it - figured there was something wrong with the song programming where it wouldn't detect my palm mutes or something and it wasn't worth trashing a guitar over. Only because my son picked it while we were playing multi-player did I even attempt this song last night (or ever again).

    I agree with your assessment of difficulty. I Can't Hear You ranked where it did on my ranking only because of the high play count (44 plays at the time). Had I not noticed that "extra" note that I suddenly noticed and had I continued playing the song, eventually it would have ranked as being more difficult than Hangar 18! My rough calculation only takes actual difficulty into account indirectly. Play count is sort of the whole basis of my very unscientific ranking and that obviously makes the calculation easy to contaminate. Just to do my own rough ranking I had to throw out a few songs which had high post-mastering play counts - songs like Surf Hell which I played often even after mastering would have had absurdly high rankings based on their high play counts.

    But, my own experience supports your theory (for lack of a better word - I'm only on coffee #2). As you point out, using RS scoring as the basis for my ranking totally ignores the actual physical difficulty of playing songs -- except insofar as actual real-world difficulty does affect one's ability to make a high RS score. Obviously my calculation also introduces all of the possible scoring variables and nuances of RS's scoring paradigm - as yet still a mystery to me and I think most of us.

    I'm guessing you've seen my progress spreadsheet. If you look just below the purple rows (my mastered song list), notice the handful of songs which I've actually scored over 100k on. But, I haven't mastered them because of exactly what you describe - they've each got some technique or sheer number of notes being played very fast or something that stops me from being able to master a particular section.

    I've got a 120k on the Single Note arrangement of Go with the Flow. Now, by all accounts, Go with the Flow, combo, is the easiest song possibly of all time. . . yet I just cannot master the single note arrangement (or haven't been able to so far). Why? Because of the slides. They're all over the place. The rest of the song is a breeze. Same sort of story for In Bloom, Barracuda, and Outshined. I've got every phrase of those songs nailed except one - the solos. On Barracuda I've got solo1 mastered. But, solo2 is stuck at 93% because of the weird little 5-note trill on the second string right at the end of the phrase.

    I agree that the best first approach to getting over this hump is to work these phrases in RR. Which I have. Over. And over. Now I'm at a point where a non-RS guitarist friend of mine says it's time for me to get off of RS and play these phrases/songs on my own through an amp until I can make them sound right without the distraction of a backing track, etc. I'm going to try that.

    I'll be curious now that I've (finally) mastered I Can't Hear You and played it in MM what the effect of my new high score will be on this song's ranking on my "Easiness Ranking." It will obviously climb toward the "easy" end of the list simply based on the fact that I've more than doubled my score on it with only an additional 3 plays. I'll re-run the calculation and sort and post the new result later.
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