The level of passive-aggressiveness here is astounding, especially coming from people who have no connection issues at all
"STFU, Mr. Expert, DRMs are AWESOME!1! You don't know me"
Wow, I need to regress several years to be able to fully comprehend your post.
Not sure why you keep bringing up whether DRM is evil or good - the issue is, OP is claiming Conflux is on and off several times a day. I know for sure it isn't in one region, and I seriously doubt it is in any other region. Otherwise, everyone would be affected and there would an avalanche of posts.
So, he is likely having a technical issue on his end (like another user here), and people on these forums should be trying to help him. Instead of insulting posters repeatedly.
Where in any of my posts have you seen me say or imply that CONFLUX is "on and off several times a day"? That is completely false, there have been only TWO (2) incidents where conflux has been down for me, both for less than a couple hours, and it was on the day patch 1.3 came out. But when you do want to play, and it is out (which was the case), it might as well be 100% of the time. Owning a game, and wanting to play it, but not being able to because I can't access my saves offline is incredibly frustrating! My main compliment with CONFLUX was and is that I have to be connected at all times in order to get the full benefit out of a SINGLE-player game that I PAID FOR, and that I can't play any of my saves from when I was online if CONFLUX is ever down or I am not connected, again a mind-boggling concept for a single-player game.
Originally Posted by rojimboo
How is this a separate matter? My main complaint was and IS with CONFLUX, which is a form of DRM. Constantly Online access for a single-player game is just stupid. And if you really want to start an argument about DRM vs Piracy, then I'm all for it, but you better bring your A game. In what reputable peer-review journal have you read that DRM in anyway stops piracy? If you have sources, please provide them so I can deconstruct them ASAP for you.
Originally Posted by rojimboo
Wow.... Just wow...
Originally Posted by Zeneren
1. I never stated any opinion of you, just an assumption that English wasn't your first language (and that is in no way a negative thing), all I said was that your improper grammar and spelling made it hard to understand you, thus implying that it's difficult to have any true dialogue with you.
2. You tell me I'm being too judgmental and then go on to list all sorts of opinions about me and then personally attack me, something I never did to you.
3. I used my background as a networks administrator to justify that I do indeed know how to "configure my router settings". I never said I was a genius, but again, you go on to use it sarcastically to attack me. When you do something, and you're good at it, to have people say or imply you don't know what you're doing, can be very frustrating. It's similar to being told to do something you're already doing. If I came off as short in anyway, then that is all on me, but again, I never attacked you or stated any opinions about you.
4. How can you say that you may be posting arguments tired, high, and/or drunk and still expect me to take you at all seriously?
Last edited by AtomRobot; 04-24-2012 at 06:03 AM.
Atomrobot: So when I asked you, how can you be so confident in your statement that DRM in no way fights piracy, I am guessing you do not know why...? Better for you to wait for me to present you a counter-argument, which you can then try and refute at every step. Nice, this is what I would do if I was drunk and angry. Sure, I'll bite.
The following is a combination of posts by me (re-edited), mostly for Anno 2070 when I got sick of all the misinformed waffle being regurgitated about the uselessness of its DRM.
There is not much relevant peer-reviewed / academic literature on the matter of PC software DRM and its effects, but there is some. References are lazy, including para-phrasing, and there is a lot of copy-paste, but this should suffice for a forum post.
The 2005 GSP Report commissioned by the Business Software Alliance estimates that 35% of software is copied, which leads to an estimated loss of more than $31 billion to firms. Software copying rates are as high as 92% in Vietnam and 90% in China. In the United States, copying rates are estimated to be 21%. The study concludes that software copying is one of the industry’s worst problems. The study did not include the positive network effects of copying, which Hui and Png (2003) did and showed that industry estimates of lost profits because of copying more than doubled the actual losses in such a case.
According to Jain(2008), “Many industry analysts see copying as one of the key threats to profitability and innovation. They claim that copying leads to higher prices for legitimate users, lower profits for the firms, reduced new product innovation and is generally harmful to society .” The paper continues to examine the impact of illegal copying of software and other similar intellectual properties on firms’ prices, profits, and quality choices, even when there are no network effects and the market is saturated.
Controversially, his paper actually finds a case when copying can increase firms’ profits, lead to better quality products and increase social welfare. The assertion is that there is reduced price competition in mature markets with no network externalities, applicable when, for example, markets of entertainment products mature in developing countries with large income disparities (such as China and India). Unfortunately for you, this case is not applicable with HOMM 6’s DRM, and the converse is true with regard to copying’s effect on the firm’s profits, product quality, and social welfare.
Hill (2007) established the only effective strategic responses copyright holders can adopt to deal with pirating. His approach involved first establishing the causes of copying by prior work done (1) work on moral development (Kohlberg, 1969), (2)equity theory (Adams, 1963; Kabanoff, 1991), and (3) moral intensity (Jones, 1991). Based on the causes and economic consequences, both in a static and dynamic sense, Hill then proceeds to offer the only effective strategic responses that copyright-holders can pursue, of which there are seven. The fourth one is relevant with HOMM 6's DRM which is “offer something extra to consumers who purchase the legal good”. “One solution that can works well for computer software is to offer online services, such as periodic upgrades and security patches, to consumers who register the legal product using a security code that is unique to every legal copy of the product. Since those who purchase pirated copies do not have access to a security code, they cannot get these benefits. This strategy effectively raises the value of the legal product, decreasing the perception of inequity.”
Note that both in the case of Jain’s paper and Hill’s book, one of the first assumptions is that the software protection is always cracked. Also, the effect of losing consumers due to intrusive DRM is always part of the effect they consider, and is arguably why they researched it, i.e. to look at effective and profitable levels of copyright protection, DRM.
Another interesting paper on this (Sundararajan, 2004) where an optimal choice of technological deterrence level is found in a market where sellers can influence the degree of piracy by implementing DRM systems. He finds the optimal response in market where the seller can price discriminate, is to offer lower levels of technology-based protection, to the point where the pirated good will always be inferior to the legal product whilst minimising any impact for the legal user, again applicable to HOMM 6.
The issue is converting a sub-set of those pirates to buy the game, and this does happen (Jain(2008),Hill(2007)), which ends up translating into a significant amount of money because there is a ridiculous number of pirates (one in third, unbelievable). This is even after the fact they consider the cost of implementing and running the DRM, the loss associated with perception of intrusive DRM, any possible product innovation loss and harm to social welfare. Even after considering all these aspects in detail, it is still better to have slightly intrusive DRM according to them. The level of intrusiveness of the DRM is arguably one of the main points and there is certainly a level where it is detrimental to, well everyone. Buying specific DRM hardware, ID checks before playing the game via creditcards, passports, fingerprinting or other biometric scans, regional locks etc. are examples. HOMM 6's DRM is fairly non-intrusive (having internet, and ends up being a win-win situation for all on the whole (apart from criminals).
I think my main issue is - if you say this level of DRM is so intrusive that it harms the sales to such an extent as to not be worthwhile, please show me some evidence. Otherwise, I will take the peer-reviewed research. And my deductive skills, which say that no publisher would continue to repeatedly punish their profits, year after year, if this DRM was indeed harming their profits. And make no mistake - companies operate for profits, and DRM would be the first thing to go if it was so detrimental to them.
Adams, J. S. 1963. Toward an understanding of inequity. Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology, 67:422–436.
Hill,C. 2007, Digital piracy: Causes, consequences,and strategic responses’, Asia Pacific J Manage (2007) 24:9–25,DOI 10.1007/s10490-006-9025-0
Hui, K., I. Png. 2003. Piracy and the legitimate demand for recorded
music. Contributions Econom. Analysis Policy 2(1).
Jones, T. M. 1991. Ethical decision making by individuals in organizations: An issue contingent model.Academy of Management Review, 16: 366–395.
Jain,S., Digital Piracy: A Competitive Analysis,Marketing Science, Vol. 27, No. 4, July–August 2008, pp. 610–626
issn 0732-2399 _ eissn 1526-548X _ 08 _ 2704 _ 0610
Kabanoff, B. 1991. Equity, equality, power, and conflict. Academy of Management Review, 16: 416–441.
Kohlberg, L. 1969. Stage and sequence: The cognitive development approach to socialization. In Growling,D. (Ed.). Handbook of Socialization Theory and Research. New York: Rand McNally.
Sundararajan, 2004: Managing Digital Piracy: Pricing and Protection
Information Systems Research 15(3), pp. 287–308
Last edited by rojimboo; 04-24-2012 at 10:28 AM.
"I understand that English probably isn't your first language" - assumption
, but arguing in written English when you can't or don't fully grasp it makes it very hard to understand you. " - opinion
if it was only the assumption that would be no problem with me but wow you really don't know what are you typing it seems
missspelling and fully catching the meaning of typing words means probably that it is not your native language or maybe you like to subtly humiliate people for not beaing able to correctly type few words from whole text or for not beaing native english speaker choice is really yours, and if you dont see what you type or how people can react for your statements then maybe problem is on your end
"You tell me I'm being too judgmental and then go on to list all sorts of opinions about me and then personally attack me, something I never did to you." never met you in person
only by your reply for my post stating that your opinion on the matter of conflux is better then others and that others dont fully grasp what they are typing because you were a network administrator so you will know better (FOR SURE) then others
"It's similar to being told to do something you're already doing" well if you know what you are doing and why someone is reacting then why are you still dragging a theme saying that the whole world is guilty only not you for your action?
"If I came off as short in anyway, then that is all on me" admitting to "fault"
"but again, I never attacked you or stated any opinions about you".- denying the "fault"
i trully dont know how i can make a dialogue or simple conversation with you my kind sir it is really beyond me in one sentence you agree and deny all what is going on hmmm strange really strange
4. "How can you say that you may be posting arguments tired, high, and/or drunk and still expect me to take you at all seriously?"
hmmmmm you dont know this first of all
i just typed that there is a lot of conditions that a person can be in any given moment that can drastically change mine or yours (whatever) ability to take notice if im correctly spelling words but you are already reffering to competence or incompetence of others with knowledge about english language and that is sad sorry it really is
if tired person tells somthing to you do you really dont take him seriusly ? thats really puzzling and kind of improper as a human to human relations but it is your right to do so because after all there is freedom of speech but still it is not nice
over all i would like to end this exchange of words so please dont reply
on the subject conflux was a publisher/developer decision not mine or yours yes they as a company can hear out the forums but they dont have to
its theirs decision and they will bear the consequences after all we live in consumptive society, and in that kind of system you really decide with your money
you bought it DRM was stated as a part of purchase and you agreed for it
and thats the simple truth demanding from them that they have to do something because you dont like it is just silly
it is like i would demand from you to paint your car on color i like more becase i like it more and that is really hmmmmm stupid?
Last edited by Zeneren; 04-24-2012 at 10:16 AM.
we turn to fight each other here for a ****ty DRM thing..
Zeneren, Conflux is not supposed to be DRM. it supposed to be a tool. But turned to be a DRM.
Now about conflux worked all the time, No, it didnt. Conflux was unstable and lots of us shout to remove it. It is stable for the moment but that doesnt mean anything. When servers went down, it was weekend and we got no official responce because.. was simply weekend.
If a company ask a 24/7 DRM they should apply 24/7 support.
A important thing now - The game CAN BE played offline. without Conflux. But it is a half-game. You play 60% of the game you paid. Conflux could be online feature to serve multiplayer. But no single player progress. All we ask here is to remove all the single player features from Conflux. The save game progress, the achievements, the dynasty weapons, the dynasty traits. All are single player content and they dont need to be online. This is a theft of itself.
If you are referring to the Steam sales weekend, the servers were definitely up, as many people played through that weekend (including me, I actually got mine during the sale, but early). But yeah, there should be someone at support during that time, if only to give us a generic reply. Cutting corners during a time of economic strife, what a surprise. Apparently this was an issue of Steam and Ubi mucking about and not providing enough valid cd-keys, they really need to look at this during sales, it has happened during other Steam sales as well.
Also lomvartus, I would actually speculate (all we can do, for some discussion, hopefully nobody is "fighting" as you say), that Conflux was designed to provide an incentive for people to buy the game (features pirates would never get), and to act as a form of DRM. Anno 2070 managed this better, as the gameplay is enhanced through many of its online aspect features during single-player as well. I wouldn't go as far as to say the same is applicable with HOMM 6, as the Conflux orb is rarely filled with useful information and actually breaks some of the game immersion for me personally. Still, looks like we will be seeing more of this always-online DRM for single-player games in the future by other publishers, like Blizzard with the upcoming Diablo 3.
Originally Posted by AtomRobot
I don't really see a problem here since I noticed that with Steam i get more disconnections than with Conflux.
You do realize that Conflux is exactly the same DRM as Steam?
Are you posting such topics on Steam forums for various games too?
Steam has 24/7 technical support.
I think the OP ran away. I hope not.