Scissors question | Forums

[IcyScythe]

In a scissors do you want to instantly cut throttle to get the other guy to overshoot or only marginally reduce it? I've been having trouble deciding because if you stay maxed out you can scissor longer before approaching stall speed, but you also might get too far ahead of the other guy.

[Woke_Up_Dead]

In a scissors do you want to instantly cut throttle to get the other guy to overshoot or only marginally reduce it? I've been having trouble deciding because if you stay maxed out you can scissor longer before approaching stall speed, but you also might get too far ahead of the other guy.

I think it depends on what you're flying, how good your opponent appears to be, and what your plan for the end of the scissors is.

If I'm in a 190 and I have a good Spit pilot on my tail then I want to set up a situation where we're going in roughly the opposite direction at some point so that I can extend straight and get away from him while he is forced to make an extra 180 turn to chase me again: in that situation I keep throttle at max at all times.

If I'm in a Hurricane and there is a 109 behind me then I reduce throttle to 50% because the Hurri turns tighter at low speeds, however I am ready to quickly push it to max again because 109 pilots tend to point their nose up and climb when in doubt; I might catch him hanging if I spot it early enough and still have speed to lift my own nose.

When my plane is damaged or the plane behind me is close and has a performance edge in most aspects then I cut throttle to zero; at super low speeds the performance difference between most fighter planes is smaller than at corner speeds or higher, so I'm evening the odds. Also, if we're both slow then someone from my team is more likely to notice us, catch us, and help me.

Here's a question for you and the rest: how do you handle the throttle when you're on someone's six and they reduce speed and start scissoring? Slow down to keep behind them, or keep fast, squeeze in a snap-shot, then use your speed to climb up and re-position?

[thefruitbat]

Here's a question for you and the rest: how do you handle the throttle when you're on someone's six and they reduce speed and start scissoring? Slow down to keep behind them, or keep fast, squeeze in a snap-shot, then use your speed to climb up and re-position?

Depends how good acceleration and rate of climb the other plane has relative to your plane, plus how much speed you have on them.

I had a bit of a shock a couple of weeks ago flying in a SEOW, i was flying a hellcat and bounced a jack. He saw me coming and pulled hard right, i decided not to turn/follow but go back up. Got a shock when i looked over my shoulder and saw him pull up and start gaining on me!

After a while we ended up in scissors with me behind, and there was no way i was going to go past him after that.

[AndyJWest]

Use the vertical, Luke...

Seriously, in most situations where chopping the throttle to stay behind makes sense, climbing to swap speed for altitude - so you can turn tighter at the top of the climb - makes more, unless you are coming in far too fast in the first place. Scissors, when done at its best, is more like a snowboarder coming down a half-pipe than anything you can think of in two dimensions. The more I fly air combat sims, the less convinced I get that any manoeuvre you can put a name to is appropriate as a tactic. Then again, I've pulled manoeuvres that had best remain nameless, other than possibly on a gravestone: "Here lies Andy J. West, who perfected the sideslip barrel-roll yo-yo. And the tree he collided with while perfecting it..."

[thefruitbat]

Respectfully disagree.

Scissors when you know how to do it is very effective. Although why people only think in 2d is beyond me, rolling scissors is much more effective, Although remember scissors is a defensive manoeuvre done by the plane in front. However if not executed well will give the plane behind good chance to shoot you down.

And Andy, I find myself purposely using air combat manoeuvres in pretty much every fight with a breather, and generally with good effect.

When behind as to whether to engage in scissors or extend or disengage comes down to knowing your respective performance vs the opposition plane, and your ability to judge your respective e states quickly.

You need to have much much more speed to be able to climb away, without offering a shot to the other plane, so if your e states are reasonably close you have no option to slow down and scissor, or simply disengage full stop (split s).