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  1. #21
    Senior Member crispyfunk's Avatar
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    Scales are what gives a song the effect that a song is full of emotion you can use many different scales but still have them all in the same over all Key

    A scale is made up from the notes in the Key your using their are lots of different patterns scales within one Key,

    the Root note is the note you start on if you have a scale with 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 you do not have to start on the 1 always you could start on any note with in the 1-7 for instance you could start with 2-3-4-5-6-7-1 , 3-4-5-6-7-1-2 , 4-5-6-7-1-2-3 , 5-6-7-1-2-3-4 , 6-7-1-2-3-4-5 , 7-1-2-3-4-5-6 this is how Modes work each pattern is from the same scale the only difference is the starting note

    each one of these patterns have a name the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 is called the First position because you start on the first note in the scale 2-3-4-5-6-7-1 is called the second position because your starting on the second note in the scale and so on we have 7 modes or positions for any one scale the fancy names for each pattern is not that important its more important to at least name them 1-7 , but the names are Ionian ,Dorian, phrygian, lydian , mixolydian, aeolian, locerian or 1-7

    so if you look at my 7 different patterns they are all in the same KEY but each one is a different scale or i should say a different position(mode) of the same scale

    yes he is giving examples in the G major scale because all the strings on a guitar when played open are notes out of the G major scale .

    i hope i didnt confuse any one more than they should be this is just a fancy way of counting to 7 ,
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  2. #22
    Member Flipper153's Avatar
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    glad you like !
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  3. #23
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    Now it's starting to make sense...!

    Edit:

    While playing scale runner I found another road bump.

    Dorian has the key of G
    Major also have the key of G

    Now I don't know what to ask.. but the thought of the above statement simply confuses me.
    Last edited by DreamAwake; 04-06-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member crispyfunk's Avatar
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    think of Dorian as (2) out of 1-7 major scale and most other scales have 7 notes so if you see someone say play Dorian in the key of G they are just saying play the G Major scale but start on the second note in the scale it would look like 2-3-4-5-6-7-1


    the part about these fancy names that confused me for a lil bit was each name represents a position of any one scale and at the same time they represent their own Scale that has all the modes in it 1-7, so you could say im playing the Dorian position in the Dorian scale if that makes since.

    in the Scale runner we can learn A Dorian scale it is different from a major scale and it has 7 positions in it ( the scale runner only shows us the first position of the scales (Ionian) and each position of the dorian scale is named 1-7 or Ionian-Dorian-phrygian-lydian-mixolydian-aeolian-locerian these are all positions within any scale . and at the same time they represent their own scale different from the major scale with each position 1-7 in it
    Last edited by crispyfunk; 04-06-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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  5. #25
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    So 1-7 is known as Ionian-Dorian-phrygian-lydian-mixolydian-aeolian-locerian .


    So Dorian in the key of G would be 2-3-4-5-6-7-1

    Going on this formula..

    Phrygian in the key of G:3-4-5-6-7-1-2
    Lydian in the key of G: 4-5-6-7-1-2-3
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  6. #26
    Senior Member crispyfunk's Avatar
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    you got it!!! now the important thing would be to start learning the patterns on your guitar , take it slow dont try to learn them all in one day, all tho if you can play a key in the first position(ionian) its just a small step to playing those notes in all the positions , so try to not think of it as learning new scales think of it as you are playing the same scale anywhere on your guitar neck and i mean anywhere its so awesome to feel like you cant play a wrong note i have only had the feeling a few times and its a feeling i want to achieve every time i play and learning all the modes(positions) of a scale is the place to start

    http://www.google.com/books?printsec...page&q&f=false

    scroll down to page (21) of the guitar grimoire it has the G major scale in the middle of the page and it shows you all the modes

    i think its important to first learn the 7 modes then once you feel like you see the pattern in your mind then learn the 5 patterns that is showed on the first page of this forum

    good luck, and dont look at the pages on the way to page 21 they look so confusing to me and it almost made me not want to look at the book but this book is just repeating the same 7 patterns the whole book making it seem not as hard as it looks right off , this book can be written on one page and give the same amount of knowledge
    Last edited by crispyfunk; 04-06-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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  7. #27
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    I will ponder the thought as I go food shopping. One step at a time just like you said.. I can picture myself playing throughout the freatboard just as clearly as you can.. I appreciate the help and will not be afraid to ask if something once again comes up.. so until then.. scale on!
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  8. #28
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    If you care about the names, here is another way you can look at it:

    Here is our trusty Dorian pattern, but I added a note - the G on the 3rd fret of the low E string:

    E|-----5---7-8-
    B|-----5---7-8-
    G|---4-5---7---
    D|---4-5---7---
    A|-----5---7---
    E|-3---5---7-8-


    Let's consider that we are playing a melody over a chord pattern that starts with a G Maj chord. If our root is G, then the dominant phrases that we play might start or end (or focus) on that root note. So, if we consider G to be our root, then we are playing in the Ionian (Major) mode. The Ionian is the 1st mode, so our root is the 1st note in the pattern.

    Now, we switch to soloing in a different song. This one has a chord progression that starts with A min. If we consider the A to be our root (low E string, 5th fret), then we are playing in the Dorian mode. The Dorian is the 2nd mode, so the root is the 2nd note in the pattern.

    So we are getting experimental now, and start a freeform jazz exploration over a chord progression that starts with a B min. If we consider the B to be our root (low E string, 7th fret), then we are officially playing in the Phrygian mode.

    And so on.

    Now this might sound a little cheap, but it gets cheaper:

    I mentioned that some guitarists don't want to memorize those 5 vertical patterns on the first page of the post. They only want to play in the Dorian pattern I have above. Now this seems very limited, because you can only play in songs that fit the G Major scale. But when you shift that pattern to other frets, you change the root of the song, and thus, the mode you are playing in.

    So, for an example, let's assume you want to get all Zappa on me and improvise in the mixolydian mode in the key of F. Slide that same pattern up a few frets, and you are there.

    E|-----8---10-11-
    B|-----8---10-11-
    G|---7-8---10----
    D|---7-8---10----
    A|-----8---10----
    E|-6---8---10-11-


    Does that pattern look familiar? Now, granted, you will have to consider that your root note is an F (since that is what is demanded by the song), so the focus will be around that 8th fret on the A string (and its octaves). The pattern is the same as our Dorian shape, but playing it in a different place and reconsidering where we root our phrases will determine what mode we are playing in.

    It is worth noting that the above is not the traditional mixolydian "shape", This just shows you that all the Major modes are cut from the same collection of notes - you just need to consider where to start and end (or which note is the root).

    So, should you even consider learning the 5 vertical patterns for the Major modes (and the vertical movements to combine them)? I say, do what is comfortable for you, but knowing them gives you a lot more musical ammunition.
    Last edited by dougoberle; 04-06-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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  9. #29
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    FIrst post in the thread now updated to include the blue note and harmonic minor scales.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member crispyfunk's Avatar
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    I was able to write a song using this Blue note and i think it sounds like its from Egypt.

    its a good feeling to know im making a little progress Thank you.
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