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  1. #31
    Senior Member Jazz117Volkov's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Reload!

    Hey, I found it!
    Had to use Google though... couldn't remember where I left the **** thing, and the forums search engine is a POS.

    Anyway, before I get to that I'd just like to add a little to this infinite ammo thingy. Shobhits list specifically.
    The only thing that I really have no argument with is the M&E, it's a total centerpiece of the SP and thus the devs glue the pistol in your hands in and around every cut-scene and corner. Doesn't really excuse infinite ammo, but it's probably the only truly justifiable reason. Even the takedowns, because you have many preventative measures, I.E. putting your pistol away, are not really a good reason.
    Honestly I think it's the same reason pistols' where given infinite ammo in Vegas. It's because the games are made for maximum action with minimal consequence. Every single aspect of the game is handed to you with no strings attached. The lack of sound detection, the ridiculous commentary from the AI (giving you their position and plan), M&E firing through walls, the AI dies soon as you touch them (throwing them = death) and the naturally the ammo. It's auto reload and even if your assault rifle runs completely dry the game swaps to your pistol in a micro second (which is actually cool... the auto swap part, not the part where you toss your 25,000 dollar assault rifle into the gutter) It's all just excessive pampering in the name of not frustrating the player.
    Also, shooting lights is pretty weak. Most of the game can be completed without shooting lights, and even if you did run dry, just tap 'A' next to a corpse and you'll pick up his weapon and ammo (even if you don't want to) and you're good to go.

    Anyway, enough 'bout that. Here's the Reload writeup I did yonks ago
    Something that has always been missing from Splinter Cell (and most other games, but that neither here nor there) is correct weapon reloading.
    What I mean by this is if there is a bullet left in the chamber of the weapon then there is no need to load a new one just because you put a fresh magazine in.
    In SCC this is most annoying with the assault rifles and SMGs. I for one like to be able to leave a bullet in the chamber for the sake of reloading faster, but this can't be done in SC, I strongly feel that it's time to fix this issue.

    At the bottom right of the screen there would be [however many magz you're carrying] little magazine shaped thingies.
    (The mag that is currently in your pistol would be significantly bigger then the others.)
    Each one is like a white outline with little white bars inside of it symbolizing the bullets. As you shoot the little bars (bullets) deplete.

    To reload:

    Press and hold the reload ****on to do a tactical reload, this takes time but you will exchange the mag in your pistol for a fresh one thus keeping your unspent bullets, however if you tap the reload ****on you will reload much faster but drop your mag and loose the unspent bullets. (you can of course pick it up later)

    Note: Your character will always put the fullest mag in his pistol when reloading.

    Also, the back ****on on the 360 controller will be for your OPSAT or equivalent, so there you can micro manage your mags, I.E. get the bullets from two half empty mags and put them in one. (Think of it like combining herbs in Resi4) And sometimes you may only pick up a box of bullets, not a whole clip so you will have to unpack those bullets and put them in a mag before you can use them. This will also allow you to have lots in reserve, but considering the game WILL not pause when using the OPSAT/Advanced inventory it would be ill advised to do it in a firefight.

    One last thing, if you try to pick up a magazine from the environment but are already carrying the maximum amount you will automatically exchange the least full one.
    But if all your mags are fuller (or completely full) then picking up a new magazine is impossible. However, you can go into your advanced inventory and put some of your bullets into your reserve and then exchange the now empty clip. Your reserve supply would also have a believable limit.

    P.S. Shotguns only have shells, hence there is no fussing around with magazines.
    Tap the reload ****on to only put in one shell, or hold it to completely reload the weapon.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member newhenpal's Avatar
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    I wasn't really criticizing the authenticity of pistol takedowns, but rather the dev teams (possible) stubborn adherence to them and the extreme solution they came up with. Alright, how about when these takedowns occur, they simply make the bullets expended during such sequences not count, like in The Darkness? Much better than infinite ammo, I reckon. And as for pistols being vital to the gameplay, just give the gamer a lot of ammo; quadruple the traditional amount of 60. Seems excessive to me, but it's still a better alternative.

    And is it really true that Vegas also had infinite pistol ammo? My brother has Vegas 2, so I might have to check it out. Well, lightning doesn't strike twice. This is certainly a deliberate choice by the Beland-headed teams.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member michaelanjello's Avatar
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    I have realized though that if a particular enemy has a silenced weapon, you can hear just as if it wasn't silenced. When you shoot any silenced weapon it's generally quieter and no one can really hear it at a certain distance away from you. While a normal thug using a silenced rifle or pistol is just as loud as if it wasn't silenced. I think the devs should tweak that slightly.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member coltcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777 View Post
    The addition of the aggro-stealth gameplay has made it necessary to use the pistol more...earlier games could get away with this thanks to lower enemy density and a more classic approach.
    Take all of the above into account and you can easily imagine how difficult the game could've been with only 60 rounds of ammo.
    that... is a flaw!
    the game begging you to shoot your way out, shoot through airport, shoot through 3E, shoot to generator and shoot your way into oval office.
    and theres even one purely stupid level you can have infinite ammo rilfe due to its daylight and you dont have ability to perform any decent movement
    theres insnt RARELY anything else player can do. maybe theres like two parts where you dont have to use your gun with ultra skill plus extreme lucks.

    bottom line, the game design itself is just pure annoying with waves of enemies with weapon lights and on high to flush you out.
    even in D-ops the enemy pattern can be so fcked up theres like only 5% chance you can defeat them with hands.
    devs know that and only solution them can came up with is not retweak the level and AIs to make stealth interesting but just gives you infinite ammo to headshot everyone.
    makes perfect sense when you cant whistle, jump, carrying bodies, shoot tasers, EMP certain lights and calms enemies down.
    player will have to turn to their only solution, Guns.




    heres what next game suppose to be, get rid of 5-7, arm players with some common caliber pistol, and gives player ability to scavenge on enemy bodies(and by that I mean dead OR Unconscious one.... AKA non-killing stealthibility acquired)
    a dozen rounds founded on one guards sounds reasonable, and max mag storage is needed.
    even if youre on a gun blaze rampage, if you cant eliminate one guy with 10+ shot, you cant even survive CoD. (MoH with infi-ammo is better for these kinda player)
    Last edited by coltcat; 04-09-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    We do have more than 100 keys on keyboard, the melee/action key design is a failure.

    ......and just because people runs fast, it doesn't mean they want to jump over obstacles and kick down a door.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coltcat View Post
    that... is a flaw!
    the game begging you to shoot your way out, shoot through airport, shoot through 3E, shoot to generator and shoot your way into oval office.
    and theres even one purely stupid level you can have infinite ammo rilfe due to its daylight and you dont have ability to perform any decent movement
    theres insnt RARELY anything else player can do. maybe theres like two parts where you dont have to use your gun with ultra skill plus extreme lucks.

    bottom line, the game design itself is just pure annoying with waves of enemies with weapon lights and on high to flush you out.
    even in D-ops the enemy pattern can be so fcked up theres like only 5% chance you can defeat them with hands.
    devs know that and only solution them can came up with is not retweak the level and AIs to make stealth interesting but just gives you infinite ammo to headshot everyone.
    makes perfect sense when you cant whistle, jump, carrying bodies, shoot tasers, EMP certain lights and calms enemies down.
    player will have to turn to their only solution, Guns.

    Ummm..No. It's like calling SC1 a flawed game because it focused on classic stealth. Every game aims to deliver a carefully designed experience. Conviction delivers Aggro-Stealth..just because you don't like it doesn't make it "flawed".
    It's like trying to go off-road with a Lambo,

    And for the D-ops pattern...brother, I have cleared entire areas using just CQC.

    @Jazz
    Most of the game can be completed without shooting lights, and even if you did run dry
    Please don't assume playstyles of a large population of players. You're confusing "Need" with "Want". You don't "Need" to shoot the lights...but some certainly "Want" to shoot them. Almost everyone I have seen playing SCC automatically starts Luminocide. It becomes a natural thing to do. Many people play like that. In fact in several coop requests you'll see a specific mention "I don't/do like shooting lights"....a separate criteria. So yeah...it became a necessity to provide enough ammo to both fight, flee and hide.

    Not perfect..but make do.. Hopefully SC6 rectifies it *Cough-optional-Cough*

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  6. #36
    Senior Member coltcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777 View Post
    Ummm..No. It's like calling SC1 a flawed game because it focused on classic stealth. Every game aims to deliver a carefully designed experience. Conviction delivers Aggro-Stealth..just because you don't like it doesn't make it "flawed".
    It's like trying to go off-road with a Lambo,
    yeah, but in SC1 players can finish the game without killing anyone (except 1 target) AND still have the option to gun down everyone if they want,
    see the game dosent force you to do so. thats the biggest problem ppl have with SCC. theres so many forced sense. (action or otherwise)
    the flaw is it lacks ability to let players approach a mission as they wants compare to previous games.
    becuz game expecting you to engage like "almost" everyone you encounters, devs gave you a infi-ammo pistol to go with.
    devs seems dosent care about if player want to go unseen, its like they assume we're all 14 yo shooter player on high and eager for killing.
    maybe I want to do that sometime, but ppl would like to try other kind of gameplays in a game to keep it fun.
    go gun crazy, killing everyone, KO everyone, ghosting...etc. but SCC (especially SP) is lacking that ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777 View Post
    And for the D-ops pattern...brother, I have cleared entire areas using just CQC.
    Sir, I'm sure you can, becuz I've done that too.
    I'm just saying Sometimes the enemies standing in perfect sneaking-proof position but waiting for an execution.
    most obvious the final room in part.3 of russian embassy, you will need to shoot at least 2 lights plus causing some disturbance to start with.
    section like those are M&E begging. devs probably don't even know it can be done with takedowns.
    Last edited by coltcat; 04-10-2012 at 10:18 PM.
    We do have more than 100 keys on keyboard, the melee/action key design is a failure.

    ......and just because people runs fast, it doesn't mean they want to jump over obstacles and kick down a door.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Andre202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777 View Post
    Ummm..No. It's like calling SC1 a flawed game because it focused on classic stealth. Every game aims to deliver a carefully designed experience. Conviction delivers Aggro-Stealth..just because you don't like it doesn't make it "flawed".
    It's like trying to go off-road with a Lambo,
    I think your comparison or example you use to make your point clear is a very bad one. You take the first game of the series which always defines a series and clearly shows the core of the franchise. Coltcat is also clearly hinting to the situations we already discussed a lot and are forced on to the player. His explanation clearly fits the flaws the Singleplayer Campaign of Conviction is facing.

    Now the second part of the quote is about Deniable Ops and that's something the first Splinter Cell hasn't got and cannot be compared too anyway. As much as SC1 focused on "Classic Stealth" it did give you the option to do some crazy stuff. It just wasn't so easy to pull it off as it is in Conviction. In Conviction it's even to easy. Even SC1 and the next titles did think about an aggressive option to play the game. They give you munition which you can find in the missions. The more NPCs and lights the mission have the more munition is there which you can use! That's something Conviction couldn't pull off!



    And for the D-ops pattern...brother, I have cleared entire areas using just CQC.
    Yeah it's often possible to use only CQC and that's why a lot of people like Deniable Ops a lot more. Nevertheless there are setups and situation which clearly shows where it's designed to use the weapon because there are to much lights and to much people that look at each other and don't move at all, so you can't do any CQC if you don't want to be seen. That's also a flaw but that's something which doesn't happen to much, but it does. Actually NPCs who stand the whole time on the same place are a contradiction to the gameplay design of Aggro Stealth. In previous games the NPCs never stand still that way so you couldn't do anything at all. You always could do what you wanted to do.



    @Jazz
    Please don't assume playstyles of a large population of players. You're confusing "Need" with "Want". You don't "Need" to shoot the lights...but some certainly "Want" to shoot them. Almost everyone I have seen playing SCC automatically starts Luminocide. It becomes a natural thing to do. Many people play like that. In fact in several coop requests you'll see a specific mention "I don't/do like shooting lights"....a separate criteria. So yeah...it became a necessity to provide enough ammo to both fight, flee and hide.

    Not perfect..but make do.. Hopefully SC6 rectifies it *Cough-optional-Cough*
    There is the point with the munition again. Even previous games do give a lot more munition to be able to do some aggressive stuff. It was an option. You could take the munition or you could go on without taking it. Other then that there are also other options to turn off the lights, but it seems like the philosophy of Conviction let the most of the gamer forget this option, if you are right that a lot of people use the pistol to shoot out lights. It would prove the flaw coltcat is talking about even more.

    You want to have options. Well that's something we were trying to make clear since Conviction. It's a bit off a double standart to say you want to have options but on the other side you only care about the options the fully supported aggro-stealth experience does give to you. While the previous games didn't fully support the aggro-stealth, it did at least support an aggressive approach. It did give you the options which Conviction definitely doesn't give you anymore. No we even had to abandon a lot of features which are in very basic Stealth games.

    One side had to compromise to much for this change and as much as the people hated the features which seems to make Conviction very easy these people still cared about these options they didn't want. They even contributed to them, to change them, to improve them so these features aren't the overpowered ones. And the only thing they were asking to have back as a compromise are just a few but important features choosen from a pool full of Stealth features Splinter Cell had and even this wasn't able to be achieved.

    Sometimes it's not bad to look back. Even the older games had an answer to the munition problem and they always covered up this problem although they didn't NEED it. But they wanted to cover it up to give that option. Now in Conviction it's like a sword that is only sharp on one side... Hopefully SC6 covers up this problem... One thing is for sure, one side will be always sharper then the other one and I think we all know where it should be sharper (Lambert told you in the first mission which one).
    Last edited by Andre202; 04-10-2012 at 11:52 PM.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Jazz117Volkov's Avatar
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    @ Shobhit:
    "assume playstyles" whoa! I never did any such thing. Watchu been smoki'n bru
    I only pointed out that shooting lights isn't a valid reason for introducing infinite ammo. I don't really care how much anyone wants to shoot lights, heck even I 'want' to shoot lights more often then not. But that's no reason to defy plausibility and give the player a god power.
    This "Luminocide" you speak of is probably induced by infinite ammo anyway. No consequence = no deterrent.
    2ndary weapon, weapons crates, picking up enemy ammo, light switches and just ones simple ability to dodge luminance tromp the need for infinite ammo regardless of how much cracking glass you want to hear.

    As I've already explained, R6Vegas had infinite pistol ammo. Same team, same (bad) decision.
    Last time I checked Logan couldn't even shoot lights...
    Last edited by Jazz_117; 04-11-2012 at 04:34 AM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre202 View Post
    I think your comparison or example you use to make your point clear is a very bad one. You take the first game of the series which always defines a series and clearly shows the core of the franchise. Coltcat is also clearly hinting to the situations we already discussed a lot and are forced on to the player. His explanation clearly fits the flaws the Singleplayer Campaign of Conviction is facing.
    I don't think I was clear enough. I talking about a cohesive design....Yes the first games allowed you to shoot..but is that enough to allow an aggro-stealth playstyle? did the game completely support such stealth gameplay? No. It was designed to provide a very specific style of style of stealth gameplay. If I go about trying to aggro it..I will not enjoy it much. I will also be wrong in calling the game "flawed" if I try to aggro-stealth it.
    Again a car analogy....A monster truck shouldn't be running an F1 simply because it has wheels and can move forward.

    I understand and agree that Conviction does have forced M&E scenarios in the SP campaign, which does dampen the gameplay a bit. It is flawed but not for the reasons Coltcat posted.

    Now the second part of the quote is about Deniable Ops and that's something the first Splinter Cell hasn't got and cannot be compared too anyway. As much as SC1 focused on "Classic Stealth" it did give you the option to do some crazy stuff. It just wasn't so easy to pull it off as it is in Conviction. In Conviction it's even to easy. Even SC1 and the next titles did think about an aggressive option to play the game. They give you munition which you can find in the missions. The more NPCs and lights the mission have the more munition is there which you can use! That's something Conviction couldn't pull off!
    The first games used the pistol as more of an 'Anti-Light' machine than a proper pistol. It was designed such. As the focus was on shooting lights and minimum engagement of the AI via firearms it was deemed fine to restrict ammo. 60 rounds were plenty if you were just concerned about shooting lights. And Conviction does pull of the 'Placed Ammo Crate' a la previous games..and we all know how that was received.
    BTW the aggro-approach was nothing more than an afterthought and almost always a chore...SC1-3 were best enjoyed while playing as a SIGINT Ninja

    There is the point with the munition again. Even previous games do give a lot more munition to be able to do some aggressive stuff. It was an option. You could take the munition or you could go on without taking it. Other then that there are also other options to turn off the lights, but it seems like the philosophy of Conviction let the most of the gamer forget this option, if you are right that a lot of people use the pistol to shoot out lights. It would prove the flaw coltcat is talking about even more.
    "aggressive stuff"? Nah man...that was scripted occasions of forced firefights and it was horrible...just like the hated forced firefights in Conviction. I tried several "Ninja" playthroughs...Lethal Stealth..in SC1. It was never as much fun as going traditional. Simply because the game just doesn't cater for it.
    As for the lights in Conviction..some lights, like in previous games, cannot be accessed via a switch..so players prefer shooting them. You also need to consider this is a Stealth-Action title...this involves the alerted AI-Evading Player loop. In such a scenario players invariably will knock lights out whenever they can. As soon as the action ramps up the players automatically want to go back into the stealth loop so they can bug out and attack again. This involves a lot of shot lights. Just check out the playthroughs on youtube or observe your Non-Hardcore SC friends playing. It is a favoured strategy. It even goes back to the firs games. My Cousin would knock out EVERY light in the first game whenever she could. My best friend has a habit of shooting all lights in Chaos Theory even if it spooks the AI. He thinks it allows him safety and also freedom of movement (I disagree...I'd rather have the AI calm as a leaf)
    So it is not a simple solution. You have to take into consideration every angle before making even the slightest changes as they tend to have a major effect some time down the development cycle.

    You want to have options. Well that's something we were trying to make clear since Conviction. It's a bit off a double standart to say you want to have options but on the other side you only care about the options the fully supported aggro-stealth experience does give to you. While the previous games didn't fully support the aggro-stealth, it did at least support an aggressive approach. It did give you the options which Conviction definitely doesn't give you anymore. No we even had to abandon a lot of features which are in very basic Stealth games.
    You think that I support infinite ammo..when I was stating why it was needed. I personally don't need inf-ammo as my playstyle allows for more 'freedom' but I do understand why it was there and was merely stating so. I felt Coltcat was wrong because he is judging an aggro-stealth game based on classic stealth mechanics.
    BTW Conviction also "At least" supports a classic stealth approach...but it is crap. Just as crap as the aggro-stealth in legacy games.
    Again, Conviction was a Stealth-Action title and it was made clear. Basic "Stealth" mechanics are all conducive to a more classic approach. Time constraints led to a very lean aggro-focussed experience. Not saying I don't want the old mechanics as well...but lets be pragmatic about it.

    @Coltcat

    yeah, but in SC1 players can finish the game without killing anyone (except 1 target) AND still have the option to gun down everyone if they want,
    see the game dosent force you to do so. thats the biggest problem ppl have with SCC. theres so many forced sense. (action or otherwise)
    the flaw is it lacks ability to let players approach a mission as they wants compare to previous games.
    becuz game expecting you to engage like "almost" everyone you encounters, devs gave you a infi-ammo pistol to go with.
    devs seems dosent care about if player want to go unseen, its like they assume we're all 14 yo shooter player on high and eager for killing.
    maybe I want to do that sometime, but ppl would like to try other kind of gameplays in a game to keep it fun.
    go gun crazy, killing everyone, KO everyone, ghosting...etc. but SCC (especially SP) is lacking that ability.
    I am one of those people. Forced engagements were a *****. But so were the forced fights in SC1. Oil Rig, Kalinatek, Abbattoir etc. Chock full of firefights..scripted firefights.
    The option of aggressiveness you were talking about is as shallow as the classic stealth in Conviction.

    The legacy SC games are specialist Classic Stealth games and Conviction is a specialist Aggro-Stealth game.

    And you CAN go unseen in Conviction. I have cleared entire rooms in SP and D-ops without anyone being the wiser and not a shot fired.

    And it is ironic that you talk about the other options as SCCs flexibility does allow more playstyles than the legacy ones....and making them ENJOYABLE.

    Sir, I'm sure you can, becuz I've done that too.
    I'm just saying Sometimes the enemies standing in perfect sneaking-proof position but waiting for an execution.
    most obvious the final room in part.3 of russian embassy, you will need to shoot at least 2 lights plus causing some disturbance to start with.
    section like those are M&E begging. devs probably don't even know it can be done with takedowns.
    In SP? yeah..it does happen. In D-ops? Nope. Never happened to me. If did find a guard waiting for too long..I'd sticky cam him. I also use M&E to clear out lonely 2 man patrols. But I am usually able to CQC my way throughout the level whenever I feel like it.

    @Jazz

    "assume playstyles" whoa! I never did any such thing. Watchu been smoki'n bru
    I only pointed out that shooting lights isn't a valid reason for introducing infinite ammo. I don't really care how much anyone wants to shoot lights, heck even I 'want' to shoot lights more often then not. But that's no reason to defy plausibility and give the player a god power.
    This "Luminocide" you speak of is probably induced by infinite ammo anyway. No consequence = no deterrent.
    2ndary weapon, weapons crates, picking up enemy ammo, light switches and just ones simple ability to dodge luminance tromp the need for infinite ammo regardless of how much cracking glass you want to hear.

    As I've already explained, R6Vegas had infinite pistol ammo. Same team, same (bad) decision.
    Last time I checked Logan couldn't even shoot lights...
    *Knowing smile*
    Yes you did. Unintentionally, but you still did. You're looking at it like a single feature and not as part of a whole. Consider the previously talked about gameplay loop in SCC and the situations you encounter and contrast it with the player's tendency to shoot lights in the game...does it still seem unwarranted? it's less of a god power and more of a gameplay convenience to allow the player to be constantly experimenting with the core mechanics. It is the aim of the design.
    And its occurence is not directly tied to the infinite ammo...rather the entire gameplay loop and focus on aggro-stealth. Average players tend to foul up and get into the action phase..this entails combat and evasion...shooting lights is a very viable tactic so a lot of players do it.

    And BTW shooting lights in Conviction is possible the worst thing you could do...the deterrent is a map full of spooked guards. To players like us (The hardcore vocal minority) it may seem trivial, and we will proceed to slaughter them anyway...but to the average gamer and SC fan it will be something to be concerned about. You have to take into consideration the lowest common denominator.

    Vegas: If you'd see the rate at which my friends emptied their weapons firing at the AI you would see why they would need inf ammo. It is a common practice in many shooters to have an inf ammo backup weapon. I personally only used the pistol for stealth headshots and during the rappelling sequences....but I can assure you that I have had many friends running dry and resorting the pistol.


    Inf ammo is by no means the only solution. But lets understand why it happened.

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  10. #40
    Senior Member SolidSage's Avatar
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    Lumenocide: I never bothered to try to not do it until SCC. It was an intrinsic part of my method up through CT. SCC encouraged me to rely on my guy's physical aptitude to avoid detection rather than using an action that leaves a trail of broken glass everywhere. I rarely bother to switch them off either, probably because it's easier to hop over a wall than wait for the switch action delay or deal with the potential action failure. An EMP pulse is okay infrequently, I think a flickering light is easily rationalized away.

    CQC: It's pretty easy to use it as the main way of taking down enemies. There are more firefight conducive set ups in SCC for sure, but that's more of an addition to, rather than a replacement for, stealth capabilities. Yes we are missing some stealth mechanics, and the audio detection gameplay is basic, but avoiding detection by craftily sneaking past enemies and bypassing security measures is all still there. Granted, not EVERY SINGLE level or obstacle in SCC can be full stealthed....do we expect EVERY SINGLE installation we infiltrate to allow for this?

    Story: This particular chapter of Sam's story has more action to it, mandatory action. The co-op story as well. And since Sam and his life seem to be the driving force behind the franchise, I don't find it odd at all that there is a certain part of his history where stealthing about for 3E took a back seat to more urgent issues. Sam probably did a whole lot of wetwork missions with the SEAL's, add that to the Iraq combat and you wouldn't be nuts to think that aggro-stealth was more a part of his DNA than 3E's version of it (which always incorporated a good amount of shooting and killing in my experience anyway). I'm also sure that A&K's mission wasn't the first blown op.
    What I'm saying is, the action was not a flaw, it's always been a part of Sam. Stop denying your true nature and just get the job done.


    Overall I agree that SCC left out some good oldies, encouraged a more combative experience and could have seen better acclaim with some finer tuning. The infinite ammo isn't needed but it doesn't really mean a jot if you're a super stealther who doesn't think we are supposed to shoot anything/much anyway. Kind of like being irked by too much sugar in a cup of tea that you aren't goung to drink anyway because you don't like tea in the first place. (slipped one of my own in there).
    I also am fully aware of how much better SCC was than ANY of the other titles in the series, in both production value and gameplay. Stealthers have their stealth, I'm not sorry that aggro got some dire needed upgrades this time around, and I'm not sorry that not EVERY obstacle can be overcome with the almighty ghosting.

    Why ask for realism if we are unwilling to accept anything but our own specific version of it?

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