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  1. #1
    Senior Member ecma4's Avatar
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    Things in Vegas that drive me nuts

    I'm really looking forward to a new R6 game, and as a result I've been replying through Vegas 1 & 2 story modes. There are a few things that really bug me about what are otherwise really fun and well made games. Here is a short list that I hope gets addressed in the new R6:

    1) Enemies don't react to bullets. You can pop 2 bullets into an enemy running towards you and they don't break a sweat. Rather they raise their gun and fire at you as if nothing happened. Really frustrating and unrealistic. When they should be down in pain, or at the very least delayed for a few seconds in reaction, they carry on like Rambo.

    2) Enemy AI just knows where you are. Lots of times they seem to know you are coming around a corner. Worse, in a gun fight, they know your exact movements even if there is a wall between you. This is very noticeable, as their bullet fire follows you. Lots of cases in a room with two doors, they will switch between doors as you get close to each one, even though they can not see you. This kills my ability to use tactics, and cheapens the game play experience.

    3) Gun positions don't match bullets shots. This doesn't happen all the time, but in many situations an enemies gun will be pointed at the ground but they still manage to shoot you. When I see an enemy and their gun is not pointed directly at me, I tend to take a few extra milliseconds to aim my shot a little better. It can be pretty frustrating when they shoot you regardless of where their gun is pointed.

    4) Enemies are way too scripted. Enemies in a level are not reacting to your actions, they are turned on by invisible triggers. Their are lots of places where you can kill one enemy within sight of a whole room full of other enemies, and they just stand there watching until you pass the trigger point that tells them to engage you. This is unrealistic and just feels very fake, it pulls me out of the game play experience. If i throw a grenade, nearby enemies should react to that. This has huge affects on how the game is played, as rather then tactically moving through the level clearing out the bad guys, game play becomes a game of memorization like this:

    a) Move to point A, wait for wave of 5 enemies.
    b) Move to point B, wait for 3 enemies from the left and 2 from the right.
    c) Move to point C... etc.

    This is really against what defines the "Tom Clancy Experience" in my opinion. Some scripting is alright, for example a squad roping down through the glass roof as I enter a room, as that makes sense from a game play and story perspective. But most enemies should just exist on the map (no spawn on event triggers) and their AI should determine what they do based on: sounds, communication, tactics, and overall objective.

    5) Friendlies stand in your way. This seems to be a bigger issue in Vegas 2 for some reason, but my team mates are always standing in my way. This is particularity noticeable on level spawn. There are a few maps where they are blocking your only direction forward while enemies are firing at you. Perhaps this is more of a level design issue, but greater details needs to be paid.

    6) No peak, cover system is good most of the time, but there are many situations where peeking is the desired action. A cover based pop out gets you killed when a peak would not. It just matter of using the right tactic for the situation at hand.

    Those are the biggest killers in Vegas for me, they pull me out of the game and turn it in to a frustrating experience. Most of the time its lots of fun, and this certainly is not a "Vegas sucked" post. But these are core game mechanics, it doesn't matter what story or new game play element you add to the next R6 game, these will still exist unless specifically considered and designed for. Hopefully the R6 development team will consider these issues, because I think they are the difference between a good game and an amazing game.
    Last edited by ecma4; 03-25-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ecma4 View Post
    Those are the biggest killers in Vegas for me, they pull me out of the game and turn it in to a frustrating experience. Most of the time its lots of fun, and this certainly is not a "Vegas sucked" post. But these are core game mechanics, it doesn't matter what story or new game play element you add to the next R6 game, these will still exist unless specifically considered and designed for. Hopefully the R6 development team will consider these issues, because I think they are the difference between a good game and an amazing game.
    I highly doubt this issue will change much, at least not for the story mode. However, you would at least expect the AI in terrorist hunt and any other game modes to be 110% dynamic, something that for some odd reason wasn't done in the Vegas games. This is an issue that has tainted the Rainbow Six franchise since Lockdown, so they have shown beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are incapable of fixing what should be seen as glaring issues in previous games. Our only real hope is that they are paying attention to their own forum like some of them claim they are, so they can see issues being pointed out what their obviously blind eyes and deaf ears clearly cannot see or hear, however unlikely this is given their track record, so don't get your hopes up too high.
    Last edited by Dcopymope; 03-25-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Things that drive me nuts in Vegas that better not happen in Patriots:

    Health Regen, 3rd Person Cover, Respawns, No Lean/Peak, Non-matching team uniforms in multiplayer, very few maps and no Map Editor....the list goes on and on, but we'll start there.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pest_AWC View Post
    Things that drive me nuts in Vegas that better not happen in Patriots:

    Health Regen, 3rd Person Cover, Respawns, No Lean/Peak, Non-matching team uniforms in multiplayer, very few maps and no Map Editor....the list goes on and on, but we'll start there.
    I think its already a foregone conclusion that we'll see all the things in Vegas with the new cheat gadgets to make matters worse. We know a lean function and map editor won't be in the game, I'd be surprised if they did make it into the game.
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  5. #5
    Spartacus Legends Community Manager EvilPixieGrrr's Avatar
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    I've been playing some Terrorist Hunt lately and I have to agree 100% on the enemies becoming a memorization game. After starting a map a couple times you can easily predict how the enemies will react every time. I'd rather have more clever A.I.
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    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilPixieGrrr View Post
    I've been playing some Terrorist Hunt lately and I have to agree 100% on the enemies becoming a memorization game. After starting a map a couple times you can easily predict how the enemies will react every time. I'd rather have more clever A.I.
    What bugs me is the absence of stealth. It becomes a duck hunt. I wish they would incorporate a Splinter Cell Conviction Deniable Ops mode with areas that have patrolling guards and in normal mode...allowing you to sneak up.

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  7. #7
    Senior Member ecma4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilPixieGrrr
    I've been playing some Terrorist Hunt lately and I have to agree 100% on the enemies becoming a memorization game. After starting a map a couple times you can easily predict how the enemies will react every time. I'd rather have more clever A.I.
    Yes, for some reason the terrorist hunt levels are particularly bad. The lack of clever AI reduces the amount of replay ability, as well as overall enjoyment. Its a shame really, because I think Vegas has captured the feel of movement and firing really well.

    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777
    What bugs me is the absence of stealth. It becomes a duck hunt. I wish they would incorporate a Splinter Cell Conviction Deniable Ops mode with areas that have patrolling guards and in normal mode...allowing you to sneak up.
    I haven't played Conviction, but that sounds great.
    Last edited by ecma4; 03-27-2012 at 06:38 AM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecma4 View Post
    I haven't played Conviction, but that sounds great.
    It's like R6 Vegas but with far more stealth

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Soulid_Snake's Avatar
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    @ecma: Lol at Rambo remark.

    What k i l l e d it for me is when enemies teleport around the map, their movements are not in real time when you can't see them. Trust me, it's a scary thing when your in a 1 v 1 TH situation.
    Currently waiting on:

    Beyond Good & Evil 2(?), Portal 3(?), Deus Ex: Universe, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, Mirror's Edge, Watch_Dogs, Rainbow 6: Patriots, Cyberpunk 2077.
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  10. #10
    Things in Vegas that drive me nuts

    I'm really looking forward to a new R6 game, and as a result I've been replying through Vegas 1 & 2 story modes. There are a few things that really bug me about what are otherwise really fun and well made games. Here is a short list that I hope gets addressed in the new R6:

    1) Enemies don't react to bullets. You can pop 2 bullets into an enemy running towards you and they don't break a sweat. Rather they raise their gun and fire at you as if nothing happened. Really frustrating and unrealistic. When they should be down in pain, or at the very least delayed for a few seconds in reaction, they carry on like Rambo.

    2) Enemy AI just knows where you are. Lots of times they seem to know you are coming around a corner. Worse, in a gun fight, they know your exact movements even if there is a wall between you. This is very noticeable, as their bullet fire follows you. Lots of cases in a room with two doors, they will switch between doors as you get close to each one, even though they can not see you. This kills my ability to use tactics, and cheapens the game play experience.

    3) Gun positions don't match bullets shots. This doesn't happen all the time, but in many situations an enemies gun will be pointed at the ground but they still manage to shoot you. When I see an enemy and their gun is not pointed directly at me, I tend to take a few extra milliseconds to aim my shot a little better. It can be pretty frustrating when they shoot you regardless of where their gun is pointed.

    4) Enemies are way too scripted. Enemies in a level are not reacting to your actions, they are turned on by invisible triggers. Their are lots of places where you can kill one enemy within sight of a whole room full of other enemies, and they just stand there watching until you pass the trigger point that tells them to engage you. This is unrealistic and just feels very fake, it pulls me out of the game play experience. If i throw a grenade, nearby enemies should react to that. This has huge affects on how the game is played, as rather then tactically moving through the level clearing out the bad guys, game play becomes a game of memorization like this:

    a) Move to point A, wait for wave of 5 enemies.
    b) Move to point B, wait for 3 enemies from the left and 2 from the right.
    c) Move to point C... etc.

    This is really against what defines the "Tom Clancy Experience" in my opinion. Some scripting is alright, for example a squad roping down through the glass roof as I enter a room, as that makes sense from a game play and story perspective. But most enemies should just exist on the map (no spawn on event triggers) and their AI should determine what they do based on: sounds, communication, tactics, and overall objective.

    5) Friendlies stand in your way. This seems to be a bigger issue in Vegas 2 for some reason, but my team mates are always standing in my way. This is particularity noticeable on level spawn. There are a few maps where they are blocking your only direction forward while enemies are firing at you. Perhaps this is more of a level design issue, but greater details needs to be paid.

    6) No peak, cover system is good most of the time, but there are many situations where peeking is the desired action. A cover based pop out gets you killed when a peak would not. It just matter of using the right tactic for the situation at hand.

    7) unrealistic reload animations the assualt rifles that have a bolt release like the scar-h cqb,m468 should be reloaded by pushing the bolt release when the last round was fired.
    8) the aiming system should have the option the use the same aiming system used in modern warfare 3,battlefield 3.

    9) the charging handle on all assualt rifles should pulled back then released.
    Last edited by deltaops12345; 04-03-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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