Mass Effect 3 [SPOILERS] | Forums

[JJ Rage]

Okay so I just finished the game. I know the ending has been crazy controversial, but I honestly did not have any problem with it.

However I'm curious of everyone else's thoughts/theories/grievances/etc. What did you think of it? Do you feel betrayed by it like so many other people who think they deserve ownership of someone else's narrative?


If the title didn't warn you, THIS THREAD WILL LIKELY HAVE MASSIVE SPOILERS. So yeah, don't cry foul if you haven't finished the game and something gets ruined for you.

[weaselboy]

I've been following this pretty closely from an interest purely in the business side of things. And, from that perspective, yeah the consumers have some level of ownership in the narrative and are perfectly justified in (constructively) criticizing the content creator.

Which, from what I've seen from the Bioware forums, after the Hepler stuff died down, a lot of the criticism has indeed been constructive.

[JJ Rage]

Everyone has a right to criticize.

But you don't get to dictate how an artist creates his work. It doesn't belong to you. I don't want to live in a world where people can demand an artist alter his or her work, and that artist is forced to comply or else face a lawsuit or as we saw yesterday, being reported to the FTC.

I've seen people on the Bioware forums and on Reddit claim that the disappointment of the ending RUINED THEIR LIFE. I'm sorry, that's a crazy person. When you claim that a video game, movie, TV show, book, or any other creative work ended in such a way that your life was forever changed for the worse, you've lost all credibility in my eyes.

It's the Star Wars argument all over again. Whether you liked the movies or not, it's not yours to dictate how it plays out. And just like Star Wars, the ending was never going to be as epic as the ending these kids wrote in their heads for the past 5 years. The fact that these clowns named their little group "Retake Mass Effect" is a shining example of just how entitled and misguided the gaming community can be.

I saw someone on Reddit compare this protest to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Regardless of your feelings about OWS, comparing a bunch of kids whining about a video game ending to a protest about ACTUAL, REAL WORLD issues is ****ing asinine and egotistical.

There will be DLC for this game, we all know that. And if Bioware releases a new ending, do they charge for it? Do they ask their entire team to come back and create brand new ending, do they get all those voice actors back in the studio, do they spend all that money and then give it to people for free? Because that's what these people will expect. I guarantee you the average Retake Mass Effect clown doesn't know the first ****ing thing about game development. The amount of money and hours it takes to create content. Or even how much money Microsoft and Sony charge a company just to send content through the required certification processes.

No, these ****ers are going to want it for free. Just like they wanted From Ashes for free. Just like they wanted Left 4 Dead 2 to be free.

I didn't even like the ending, but I believe in artistic freedom. These same *******s *****ing about the ending were probably the ones crying foul about the day-one DLC, claiming that Bioware had sold out and lost their integrity. No... that's not selling out. Selling out and losing your integrity would be placating these selfish little mongoloids and creating a new ending.

[weaselboy]

Being reported to the FTC was for false advertisement claims against EA, NOT against Bioware for how they created the game. In that respect, yes, they have every right to demand what they were promised.

Are some people blowing it out of proportion? Sure. But, strictly from a business standpoint, video game consumers are finally learning they can make some demands on the company providing them a product. It's business, and dismissing the entire group for the absurd statements of a few, and calling them "****ers" and etc. is devaluing the big thing that can be taken away from this: namely, consumers can hold publishers accountable to ensure the publisher doesn't interfere with the developer. If you want to blanket label all of these people as ****ers, mongoloids, and *****es who just want a free product, fine. It's your prerogative. Just like it's theirs to complain about feeling like they were falsely advertised to by EA.

Edit: Wait, you DIDN'T like the ending? So are you saying that, in the name of artistic freedom, a company should be above criticism, and you won't critically analyze WHY you didn't like the ending, just because it was Bioware's choice (and this is ignoring the possibility of EA forcing Bioware to release the game early.)

[JJ Rage]

You can't make a false advertising claim based on expectations that you created in your own head. Once again, I never ONCE said they were above criticism. You're putting words in my mouth. I said, quite simply, they that can end their trilogy however they **** well please. Not liking something is not grounds for lawsuits and FTC involvement. Reporting EA to the FTC and starting a petition DEMANDING a new ending is not "criticism".

The grounds of false advertising for a creative work is silly on it's own, but take a look at the reality of the situation. To say the game was "false advertising", the FTC would would have to deem that Bioware/EA willingly deceived their audience OR that they failed to disclose critical information about their product's contents.

Now, I highly doubt they would willfully deceive their audience, regardless of what the tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists that litter the internet's gaming community would have you believe. Especially considering the amount of heat they got over Dragon Age II this time last year. Secondly, should Bioware be forced to disclose their endings before their games come out?

The reason I'm fired up about this issue is because it could lead to rights being taken away from game developers. The same protections that the industry have been fighting for in regards to free speech. Think about that for a second. What if this FTC claim actually goes somewhere? At what point are we going to allow the government to police creativity?

I'm not saying that it's not their right. I am saying that it's an entitled, ignorant, and selfish thing to do. Like most people these days, they haven't the foresight to see the implications of their actions.

My opinion and analysis of the ending is irrelevant in regards to the Retake Mass Effect issue.



Now, onto my opinion of the ending. When I say I "didn't like the ending", I partially misspoke. As I said in my original post, I didn't have a problem with the ending, but I didn't think it was WHOA CRAZY AWESOME either. I enjoyed the ambiguity, I enjoyed the supernatural sort of aspects of it. I've also had a few days to let it sink in, and I'e found myself even warming up to many other aspects of the ending, partially due to the similarities it shares with the "all of this has happened before and will happen again" aspects of LOST and Battlestar Galactica that were so prevalent throughout the course of the series.

The complaints I've seen about the seemingly static nature of the last big choice are totally valid, I feel like this is the risk you run when have a series of games that have been so big on choice. Eventually, you run out of choices. They could've written it better, could've made it better in a lot of ways. But it's there now, warts and all.

Perhaps part of the reason I'm so okay with it? Because I got literally hundreds of hours of fantastic, dynamic gameplay from those three games. I finished the first Mass Effect twice, ME2 I played it four different times, with four different classes, four different love interests, and got four different endings. Each one of those playthroughs was great fun, each one took me at least 40 hours. I've already started my second playthrough of ME3, importing my Paragon Femshep from ME1 and 2, and continuing my relationship with Liara right where I left off in the Shadow Broker DLC.


So no, I don't hate the ending. I don't love it either. But I'm not going to let it ruin 3 amazing games for me, because I'm not a ****ing crybaby.

[weaselboy]

You can't make a false advertising claim based on expectations that you created in your own head. Once again, I never ONCE said they were above criticism. You're putting words in my mouth. I said, quite simply, they that can end their trilogy however they **** well please. Not liking something is not grounds for lawsuits and FTC involvement. Reporting EA to the FTC and starting a petition DEMANDING a new ending is not "criticism".

I haven't seen any serious talk of a lawsuit. The false advertising claim (at least in regards to the original FTC/BBB filing claim) wouldn't lead to a lawsuit as described it the initial post talking about it and isn't based on expectations in the players' own heads. They are claiming it's based on the hype generated by EA via the release of developer commentary and their marketing strategy. There's an entire thread dedicated to tracking what was said about the game prior to release, with some additional (or at least repetitive) info in other places, too. And while Bioware can end the game however they please, EA cannot deceive the public about how that end will play out. Bioware would not have to disclose their ending. EA would simply be prohibited from talking about it unless they were going to tell the truth. And that means NOT using old commentary about parts that were cut. In short: the player's own the narrative insofar as the consumer should get what the marketer has promised.

Furthermore, given EA's and ATVI's marketing strategies (EA formed a mock boycott of their own game to try to whip up PR buzz, and ATVI has been estimated to spend five times more on advertising vs. cost to develop a game,) it's apparent they are interested in selling a product, and it's fascinating to watch the backlash against these sorts of marketing tactics (again, I'm not interested in the people saying it ruined their lives. I agree they're just being melodramatic and shouldn't be given attention.) Anytime you have something being marketed, it must be marketed truthfully. Whether or not EA lied or deceived doesn't really concern me--at least not until something concrete is revealed; what concerns me is that some segment of the ME3 playerbase felt they were deceived, and some are taking a rather constructive approach to it by offering feedback on the forums, doing some pretty in depth story analysis, etc.

But:

The reason I'm fired up about this issue is because it could lead to rights being taken away from game developers. The same protections that the industry have been fighting for in regards to free speech. Think about that for a second. What if this FTC claim actually goes somewhere? At what point are we going to allow the government to police creativity?

Developers already DON'T have rights outside of what the publisher/contract will grant them. AAA games are, first and foremost and for better or worse, a business. False advertising claims for a creative work are not silly when the people marketing it are the business side of the industry, and those people hold control via funding. Now, how much leeway EA offers Bioware is debatable. I'd imagine Bioware's reputation allows them more freedom than, say, the new people developing the latest Call of Duty spinoff. But the fact is, AAA games are a business, and as such should fall under the same restrictions as other businesses. And for false advertising claims, it has no bearing on policing creativity in any business. A ruling on false advertising would affect how the company advertises, not creates.

Also: thanks for the clarification on your thoughts on the ending. Like I said, I haven't played ME3 yet, I'm following this mainly to see how the false advertising and "retake Mass Effect" stuff plays out (which, while I agree demanding a new ending is rather absurd, I think the idea behind it is interesting: "we were told one thing about the ending, we got another, fix it." Again, if it turns out EA botched the advertising, I don't think it should be on Bioware to create a new ending, but I am very interested to see if the calls do result in EA changing their marketing strategy or Bioware somehow compensating the players for EA's potential mistake.)

[Warholism]

welp.

[JJ Rage]

I don't really have the time or energy to reply to everything you said Weasel, but I will say this: If someone at Bioware made a statement about their game that either didn't come true or was misunderstood/misrepresented, then that sucks.

However, it wouldn't be the first time that a developer misspoke about a feature for their game. It wouldn't be the first time the fans of said game called them on it. My issue with the community reaction is that it comes with this notion that it was done maliciously. There is the attitude about the situation and hell, about EA in general, that these sorts of things are done on purpose. As if there is this grand puppetmaster at Bioware or EA purposely pissing off customers for their own enjoyment.

And that's just silly.

[JJ Rage]

Here is a pair of articles (both on Kotaku, sorry) that talk about the ending issue.

The first focuses on protecting creative freedom, as I touched on in my posts: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/03/pro...er-be-changed/

The second is an analysis of what went wrong with the ending and more importantly why it went wrong, specifically the sort of corner that Bioware was kind of painted into by creating a game that leaned so heavily on choice: http://kotaku.com/5892676/why-mass-e...tag=masseffect

[masseffection]

I definitely had a problem with it. It was just super anticlimactic after all the hours I put in.