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Thread: Why Recon Regarded As 'Over Powered' | Forums

  1. #1

    Why Recon Regarded As 'Over Powered'

    The best and even core design intentions can and often are totally obviated if most of the people the game aren't playing the way its Designer intended. One example would be the Recon class; granted the class carries the game's name, but the Recon's 'features & benefits' amount to a level of tactical leverage that marginalize 66% of the playing audience if it were evenly distributed to all classes -- which is obviously not the case further exacerbating game balance issues and 'fun factor'.

    I'm surprised there aren't more forum complaints about the Recon being an 'Over Powered Class' as there is in so many games, with people even leaving games in frustration. Perhaps it's because of the limitations of the kinds of feedback Ubisoft is soliciting (Fun Factor, Technical Performance, Store Use & Pricing), and a general sense of apathy Gamers are feeling about AAA title Publisher/Developers and their proclivity to disregard even the most obvious... But I'll make an an attempt to summerize here what others are saying that seems to hold true with the facts:


    Most First Hit Decisive & Time/Damage Weapons

    Not only are the sniper rifles the most FHD weapons in the game (as they should be), the most accurate (again as they should be), but also deliver the highest Time/Damage to target in game (serious issue)...

    By way of illustration of how this plays: A Specialist has absolutely no objective capability to suppress a Recon with an MG, even if prone, and precisely aimed at a corner a Recon on same team has illuminated, the most sustained and accurate fire Specialist can deliver, can not stop the Recon from leaning around the corner, aiming, firing and killing in one, two or three shots. This isn't a maybe or sometimes thing, it's something I have personally tested with the help of a friend, and see play out dozens of times. As a counter to Recon the Specialist has absolutely no direct fire or even suppressive capability.

    In fact as a side note: due to the lack of any suppressive capability, the abject lack of accuracy on the MG's even burst or single shot fire, makes this a virtually zero skill class except for CQC 'Run & Gun' or as an Ageis bu*ton pusher -- which is a shame.

    While these may to some extent be exacerbated by net-code and hit reconciliation issues the lack of counter is problematic considering the other Recon strengths for which there is also no direct counter i.e. there are indirect counters, but these are not skill based and rely on guessing or the skill of other Recons on your team, luck, and not your individual skill, obviating your ability to respond, and taking fun out of the game.


    No Day/Gay Glow Goggles

    The only class that doesn't have the idiot 'get your head shot here' bright, glowing, blue target goggles -- 'nuff said...


    Oracle

    The Oracle not only lets the Recon see where opposing playes are, the direction they're moving, the direction they're facing, and all the information that comports -- like is the Player likely healing up from damage, ready to pop-&-shoot, moving to a known position of cover etc., but the Recon chooses when he illuminates targets -- which is very powerful for him, but in as many cases as not will be useless for his team, especially with respect to any scissors-paper-rocks counter to other Recons your team mates that are NOT Recons may confront.


    Ability to Cloak

    There is no direct counter to a cloaked Recon; in fact the cloak trumps all other class specialties with respect to direct action i.e. known threat, skill based action counter to be taken -- it has no direct counter only indirect which would be fine if the Recon was not such an otherwise powerful class.


    The Most Played Class

    With anywhere from half to more then half the Players in most games -- any issue with the Recon class is only amplified for the reaming two minority classes. In fact the problem is so bad imho elect to leave any game where the half or more of either team is composed of Recons (as do quite a few others), and I'll even leave games in progress where abandoned slots are filled with Recons creating the aforesaid situation even when I'm the leading 'score wh*re' and my team is winning... If this strategy were adopted by still more players it would have a stronger positive net effect of concentrating Recons in fewer games.


    Summarily

    The Recon has the most accurate, highest damage, highest time/damage, longest range weapons. The Recon can not be suppressed and can kill you in in as many as three shots while Specialists or Assault classes attempt to suppress him. Assault and Specialst classes have a bright blue target painted on their heads but Recon does not and can optionally be invisible. The Reocn can see all opposing Players through all surfaces on the map, at any range knowing their posture, direction they're facing and/or moving. With respect to firearms: the Specialist class can not directly counter the Recon at range or even suppress him and must CQ Run & Gun to counter with weapons fire, the Assault class can only counter him with spam and luck at range or CQ Run & Gun tactics.


    Suggested Remedial Action

    Give the Recon class Gay-Glow goggles to or take them out of the game (the Recon has the most magical vision capability after all). Give the Specialist effective suppressive capability that either blinds their target's vision peaking in to direct area of fire, or inflicts damage, or both. Give the Assault class accurate prone fire that is the match of the Recon so he can offer direct fire counter -- he still does less time/damage so class differentiation is preserved. Fix the diappointing net-code/hit-reconcilation...

    Last edited by hoak; 03-13-2012 at 01:51 AM.

  2. #2
    - Cloak does, in fact, have limited range. I don't know how far it is, but it's not "any range" like you said.

    - Yes, I think the Specialist needs an accurate counter-sniping weapon. (LMG is frustratingly inaccurate.)

    - It's definitely the most played class.

    - One of the problems with sniper Recons is that there are only two ways to deal with them... also go sniper, or use the most accurate assault rifle you can (which is what I'm doing, and it works great IMO).

    - It would help if sniping while crouched weren't so effective and downside-less. I hear a prone nerf is coming, though.

    - Excellent mention about the goggles. Giving them goggles might be good.


    I don't have a problem with the sniper rifles themselves, since I can do very well against snipers using nothing but very short bursts from my VSS or longest-range Mk 16 (short bursts guarantee reasonable accuracy, make them flinch, and can take them down in as few as 3 AR bullets).

  3. #3
    I agree. Right now the only purpose the two other classes serve is suppression fire, whereas the Recon is a 1sk maniac with an SMG just to mock the ineffectiveness of the former's weapons.

  4. #4
    Yeah, the lack of suppression for LMGs is really frustrating when going against snipers and sadly the way I tend to kill snipers from range is with a pistol, assuming they havent seen me first, but even then I shouldn't have to resort to kill someone at range with my sidearm. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with snipers if it actually took some relative skill to kill with one, it should take longer for a sniper to get on target like they should have like a .5s where they have to hold there breath to pull of an accurate shot or perhaps a 2 or 3 second recovery time for every shot taken after the first, or when swinging out of cover they have a sort of "stabilize" period for 1 second where there accuracy is thrown off while they line up a shot. Obviously these are just examples but anything is better than the current way the recon class is currently. Also, their Stealth ability is VERY hard to see, I don't know if it's meant to be that way but I'll see a blur move buy for half a second then it'll be gone and then I'm dead. Not at all the biggest problem Recon has, just throwing that out there.
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  5. #5
    http://i.imgur.com/7Y5GO.jpg

    But we already have goggles.
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  6. #6
    Community Manager chemzero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naok10 View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/7Y5GO.jpg

    But we already have goggles.
    If you choose cloak, you have goggles. Only Oracle Recons have the monocle, which makes sense given their ability. Personally I've never found the goggles to be an advantage in getting headshots. Usually it's just the movement itself that clues me in to the fact that "oh, someone's over there. *spray*."
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  7. #7
    Well the goggle issue may be a bug, and the digression is pretty moot to the Recon being conspicuously over powered and over played; which may have more to do with the other two classes being underpowered then the Recon 'uberness' -- even the Specialist's more advanced LMGs are little more then grossly inaccurate nerf cannons, that can't suppress any class even 6 levels junior from easily taking them out, and the lack of accuracy makes shooting skill moot for the Specialist class.

    Similarly the Assault class is unable to suppress, in fact suppression as a design concept doesn't even exist in the Ghost Recon: online, and like the Specialist completely vulnerable to Recon Sniper fire with no direct-fire counter tactical options available.

    While I like and enjoy the 'abilities' in the game, with the exception of Blitzing, they're skill obviating for the person using them (take less skill then direct fire tactics) and should IMHO -- they're great fun for a new Player that is not particularly skilled but should be deemphasized in the game more, with firearms getting more emphasis as my preference is to 'skill' rather then 'trick' play -- but that's just me, and maybe this isn't the game for me or Players like me...

    Last edited by hoak; 03-13-2012 at 04:34 AM.

  8. #8
    Oracle and blackout counter cloak.
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  9. #9
    GRO Community Leader cra2yazn's Avatar
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    I personally hate snipers in game and usually support any move for them to get nerfed into oblivion but i must say in this game I hardly find snipers to be a problem. If Im up against a team of mostly snipers ill go HEAT and suppress them and move up. Also the cloak isnt to hard to notice cuz it leaves a blur also makes a very loud noise when activated. Oracle i think is ok where its at now since it can actually betray the position of a recon since the oracle isnt a 360 degree device. The oracle only sends out a pulse in the FoV of the recon and if you get pinged more then a couple times in a few secs then u you know there are multiple recons looking at you or a recon is very close to you. Also I dont think this game is that rock-paper-scissors but there are aspects that make one class better for handling another, but if it was RPS than u cant really say "paper" is OP if ur going "rock". Suppression is a system that i think GRO needs either in the way Future Soldier's suppression system works or at least negate the benefits of cover in terms of the added stability bonus and stuff like that. Ive played Recon for maybe about a couple matches to get to lvl 5 and i dont ive ever noticed that the assaults/specialists have glowing faces. Also from ur post it seems ur putting up a skilled snipers against a fairly new assault/specialist who doesnt know the game mechanics. Whats to prevent people from goin Assault with a high magnification scope and a bipod and sniping with that? The Mk 16 is accurate and could be a formidable long range weapon.
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  10. #10
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    I was about to write a thread about how the Recon's abilities had very few counters except for Blackout. But hoak has already done that for me!
    But yeah, I agree with EVERYTHING that hoak has said here.
    Quote Originally Posted by chemzero View Post
    If you choose cloak, you have goggles. Only Oracle Recons have the monocle, which makes sense given their ability. Personally I've never found the goggles to be an advantage in getting headshots. Usually it's just the movement itself that clues me in to the fact that "oh, someone's over there. *spray*."
    I personally have found seeing the goggles to be huge in this game. It doesn't mean you have to shoot the head or anything, it just means if you see goggles, take cover.
    But it's incredibly annoying that the Recon doesn't have to zoom to scan for targets far away as the goggles are very easy to see yet everyone not Recon is screwed because they can't see the Recon.
    Last edited by gameshoes; 03-13-2012 at 05:36 PM.

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