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  1. #21
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    All this negativity?

    The Point Shoot is optional. Look at it this way:

    For Action fans: Hitman has always had a direct bullrush gameplay loop...it's time they actually made it a viable tactic. The point shoot would make the game a tad more enjoyable and badass for those who seek cinematic thrills and the feeling of being a powerful assassin mowing badguys down

    For Stealth fans: Consider it an "Emergency Exit" switch...if you get detected..pop it to avoid a serious faux pas. So it prevents you from being detected by a couple of tangos after a loooong time of carefully ghosting around

    For the Tactical/Aggro Stealth fans (Me included): an option to orchestrate a domino of death effect with careful planning, observation and stealth

    For all the critics and the "Dumbed down!" clan members:

    1. It is actually well balanced with the instinct feature. Consider Deus Ex HR....now one would think that the Cloaking aug would've made the stealth piss easy...but we all know the truth..right? It didn't. It was well balanced. You were encouraged to use it..while prevented from spamming it.

    2. "Dumbed down!"....sigh same argument for SCC....well...I challenge ANYONE to prove that the previous instalments of BOTH SCC AND HITMAN were MORE tactical or made the player "think" more. I challenge you.

    3. Consider the WEALTH of gameplay possibilites now in Hitman. Better CQC, shooting, Agility, Disguises, smarter AI, crowd dynamics, next gen tech powering it all. Murder sandboxes returning better than ever before....NOW tell me you still feel that Absolution might be anything LESS than absolute gold, especially considering IOs history of delivering solid game after game with evolutionary updates.

    I rest my case.

    Long live 47

    P.S

    Also for people moaning that the abilities in Absolution are not "in character" for 47 should consider the fact that the previous game's version of 47 was seriously ill-equipped/trained for killing people. If a character wasn't able to shoot accurately in the first 3 games inspite of being an elite highly trained operator...then it is the duty of the next instalment to fix it.

    Chaos theory added a lethal and agile side to Sam Fisher which was really appreciated (the Knife and the new moves)
    Absolution is adding gameplay mechanics to 47's repertoire to have a fully realised assassin and open up several gameplay styles for the player

    Am I the only one excited about Hitman: Absolution being the STEALTH FAN'S DEUS EX?
    Last edited by shobhit7777777; 02-29-2012 at 05:09 PM.

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  2. #22
    Senior Member coltcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soron View Post
    I wish it would just go back to a one move finish like SCCT. Those precious seconds hes hitting the guy like five times are costly. What happened to being able to just grab a guard from behind and drag him into the shadow with out kicking him in the stomach first???
    I know what devs will say, "it makes Sam and AI more like human, AI will resisting while being grab, so Sam needs to oppress their reaction first"
    truth, AI are even duller than before, you can grab they in the front silently.
    only thing for SCC AI to balance you out is everyone of them acting high and has weapon lights. even street thugs.
    We do have more than 100 keys on keyboard, the melee/action key design is a failure.

    ......and just because people runs fast, it doesn't mean they want to jump over obstacles and kick down a door.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member sameer_monier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shobhit7777777 View Post
    All this negativity?

    The Point Shoot is optional. Look at it this way:

    For Action fans: Hitman has always had a direct bullrush gameplay loop...it's time they actually made it a viable tactic. The point shoot would make the game a tad more enjoyable and badass for those who seek cinematic thrills and the feeling of being a powerful assassin mowing badguys down

    For Stealth fans: Consider it an "Emergency Exit" switch...if you get detected..pop it to avoid a serious faux pas. So it prevents you from being detected by a couple of tangos after a loooong time of carefully ghosting around

    For the Tactical/Aggro Stealth fans (Me included): an option to orchestrate a domino of death effect with careful planning, observation and stealth

    For all the critics and the "Dumbed down!" clan members:

    1. It is actually well balanced with the instinct feature. Consider Deus Ex HR....now one would think that the Cloaking aug would've made the stealth piss easy...but we all know the truth..right? It didn't. It was well balanced. You were encouraged to use it..while prevented from spamming it.

    2. "Dumbed down!"....sigh same argument for SCC....well...I challenge ANYONE to prove that the previous instalments of BOTH SCC AND HITMAN were MORE tactical or made the player "think" more. I challenge you.

    3. Consider the WEALTH of gameplay possibilites now in Hitman. Better CQC, shooting, Agility, Disguises, smarter AI, crowd dynamics, next gen tech powering it all. Murder sandboxes returning better than ever before....NOW tell me you still feel that Absolution might be anything LESS than absolute gold, especially considering IOs history of delivering solid game after game with evolutionary updates.

    I rest my case.

    Long live 47

    P.S

    Also for people moaning that the abilities in Absolution are not "in character" for 47 should consider the fact that the previous game's version of 47 was seriously ill-equipped/trained for killing people. If a character wasn't able to shoot accurately in the first 3 games inspite of being an elite highly trained operator...then it is the duty of the next instalment to fix it.

    Chaos theory added a lethal and agile side to Sam Fisher which was really appreciated (the Knife and the new moves)
    Absolution is adding gameplay mechanics to 47's repertoire to have a fully realised assassin and open up several gameplay styles for the player

    Am I the only one excited about Hitman: Absolution being the STEALTH FAN'S DEUS EX?
    ^^^ This puts all the discussion to rest, nicely said

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  4. #24
    Senior Member soron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coltcat View Post
    I know what devs will say, "it makes Sam and AI more like human, AI will resisting while being grab, so Sam needs to oppress their reaction first"
    truth, AI are even duller than before, you can grab they in the front silently.
    only thing for SCC AI to balance you out is everyone of them acting high and has weapon lights. even street thugs.
    It really gets my nerves when I take the time to sneak up behind a unsuspecting guard only to have my character stand up and wait for the guard to turn around then kick him then grab him, that really bugs me. Its even worse in multi-player when the dude does the same only he randomly grabs you...
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  5. #25
    Senior Member SolidSage's Avatar
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    @Soron
    I understand your distatse for QTE. My suggestion was for an expansion of the existing system, and I am certain there are better ways to do it than the random momentary example I made. But the situation is this, M&E already exists as an intrusive type of action like a QTE. Fortunately, it is COMPLETELY optional. That said, some players use and enjoy it, I do for certain types of play through (I run the whole gambit), so making the QTE'ish play have a bit more of a requirement of the players skill MAY make it more fun, for those whoe like it. Sadly, on some of my full stealth runs, I get busted, IT hits the fan and surviving then becomes the objective (I take it as an insult when the bad guys kill me without my permission), SOMETIMES, M&E is that emergency tool Shobhit mentioned. Plus, it is great for Last Stand completionism and Speed Runs would be SO much slower without it.
    In summary - great optional tool. The only complaint I understand about M&E as a newly developed tool, is the decision to build AI patterns AROUND it. It shouldn't be the focus of game play in that regard.

    What else didn't you like about my comments? Oh CQC, well, yeah, lethal, non-lethal, knifeyness, drag and carry, all those things we all want. I personally want much more from CQC, and again, my example would likely not be the best, but I think the ability to control what move is used and the ability to flow from one into another would be great. At the very least, I want to control whether my move results in discharging my weapon, especially if infinite ammo goes away (as it should).

    As far as the AI, I don't see an issue, never had problems grabbing from behind, maybe I don't move slow enough for that though. And on Realistic they resist grabs from the front a bunch in MP, seems to be somewhat disabled on SP since no one can save you.


    @Shobhit
    "Domino of death"....I like that. Man I'm itching for 6!
    Last edited by SolidSage; 02-29-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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  6. #26
    Senior Member Jazz117Volkov's Avatar
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    ^ more from CQC is a must for me. (I know, I know... I won't go on about it) still, I've never found much of a problem when trying to grab a dude from behind. All you gotta do is get behind them (within a few feet) hold 'B' and he's all yours. A quick kick to their knee and a headlock... my only gripe with that specific technique is the delay between when you're character has the AI in a secure hold and when you can start moving. It's not much, but 3/4 a second is far to long for my liking... I want CQC to be fast.

    @ Shobhit
    I like your brakedown of the point/shoot thingy. I don't disagree on any particular point, but I would still like to see less gaminess involved in the execution part. As S.Sage pointed out, he uses M&E in Last Stand... well, after some experimenting, I've found that unless I've got the element of surprise it's actually quicker, and more beneficial to your health to shoot the AI manually, as sometimes, the time it takes to mark the enemies can leave you dead. M&E as a gameplay concept is something you should use when you have the upper hand, (PEV) however, that is also the reason why it begs for more player input. 'I' want to feel all cool and capable, because I pulled of something thupa lethal... not because I pressed 'Y' and watched flashy shooting animations.
    So yeah, concept is great, I just want it to include 'me' in the execution.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member coltcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soron View Post
    It really gets my nerves when I take the time to sneak up behind a unsuspecting guard only to have my character stand up and wait for the guard to turn around then kick him then grab him, that really bugs me. Its even worse in multi-player when the dude does the same only he randomly grabs you...
    oh yea... AI turn to acting they are engage you then fall into your arms. thanks for pointing that out.
    for a game of 2010, lots of animation really feels unrefined. CQC animations in the whole game tells you its a rushing build. fancy, but looks really staged.
    remember in last 2 game when you click and click to move slowly, Sam actually moves one slow little step a time. it feels so natural
    and reaching for knife when AI closing is a undeniable nice touch.
    only Convictionish animation is when you grab a sitting guy he will stand up then be grab. but thats in 2004 so no ones gonna bichin about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz_117 View Post
    ^ more from CQC is a must for me. (I know, I know... I won't go on about it) still, I've never found much of a problem when trying to grab a dude from behind. All you gotta do is get behind them (within a few feet) hold 'B' and he's all yours. A quick kick to their knee and a headlock... my only gripe with that specific technique is the delay between when you're character has the AI in a secure hold and when you can start moving. It's not much, but 3/4 a second is far to long for my liking... I want CQC to be fast.
    I know, I want my takedown to be fast too (thumb)
    all CQC are kinda showy in SCC, like a seagal movie.
    shooting a guys cerebullem after specifically shot his hand first
    or punching the back of the neck with pistol then shoot his head
    sure it looks cool, but if any case it only gives your target a chance to scream.
    IDK if anyone gets detected just becuz the character wants to perform a second of action scene?

    but IMO efficiency of takedown or CQC moves should be lower then SCCs standard
    SCC makes takedown too efficient, (witch ofcors, all the modes in game encourages you to kill ppl)
    if SC6 is a really stealthable game we are talking about.
    for more intense gameplay, original AI only grabable from behind is a good idea
    silent CQC can only be done from behind or flank.

    I grab or KO a guy in front well resulting some other AI alrets is reasonable. he will yell for help and wave his arms for sure. maybe lethal silent takedown by stabbing his throat or something.
    Last edited by coltcat; 02-29-2012 at 08:53 PM.
    We do have more than 100 keys on keyboard, the melee/action key design is a failure.

    ......and just because people runs fast, it doesn't mean they want to jump over obstacles and kick down a door.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member shobhit7777777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz_117 View Post
    ^ more from CQC is a must for me. (I know, I know... I won't go on about it) still, I've never found much of a problem when trying to grab a dude from behind. All you gotta do is get behind them (within a few feet) hold 'B' and he's all yours. A quick kick to their knee and a headlock... my only gripe with that specific technique is the delay between when you're character has the AI in a secure hold and when you can start moving. It's not much, but 3/4 a second is far to long for my liking... I want CQC to be fast.

    @ Shobhit
    I like your brakedown of the point/shoot thingy. I don't disagree on any particular point, but I would still like to see less gaminess involved in the execution part. As S.Sage pointed out, he uses M&E in Last Stand... well, after some experimenting, I've found that unless I've got the element of surprise it's actually quicker, and more beneficial to your health to shoot the AI manually, as sometimes, the time it takes to mark the enemies can leave you dead. M&E as a gameplay concept is something you should use when you have the upper hand, (PEV) however, that is also the reason why it begs for more player input. 'I' want to feel all cool and capable, because I pulled of something thupa lethal... not because I pressed 'Y' and watched flashy shooting animations.
    So yeah, concept is great, I just want it to include 'me' in the execution.

    I get ya.

    I really am not concerned about the actual mechanics of a M&E like mechanic...but I really like the design philosophy behind it and what it allows us to do.

    @SolidSage



    It is apt innit....Mark trap, mark cluster, proxy mine for the patrolling guy, CQC for the loner above...which also places you in ideal spot for the execute...things start off with the Proxy mine explosion....aaaaand the dominos topple.
    *cue western classical music

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  9. #29
    Senior Member soron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coltcat View Post

    but IMO efficiency of takedown or CQC moves should be lower then SCCs standard
    SCC makes takedown too efficient, (witch ofcors, all the modes in game encourages you to kill ppl)
    if SC6 is a really stealthable game we are talking about.
    for more intense gameplay, original AI only grabable from behind is a good idea
    silent CQC can only be done from behind or flank.

    I grab or KO a guy in front well resulting some other AI alrets is reasonable. he will yell for help and wave his arms for sure. maybe lethal silent takedown by stabbing his throat or something.
    I think if your going to kill every one anyway, why not just go back to the knife? It was quick silent and really deadly.
    @solid sage
    "As far as the AI, I don't see an issue, never had problems grabbing from behind, maybe I don't move slow enough for that though. And on Realistic they resist grabs from the front a bunch in MP, seems to be somewhat disabled on SP since no one can save you."
    They half second it takes to grab them has gotten me spotted many times and them randomly turning around and grabbing you happens whaen they are engaged with your buddy and you try to grab them. I have had it happen many times.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member newhenpal's Avatar
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    Just watched another H5 video. Didn't see anything that could be called a truly rich experience or 'gold'.

    Also not convinced that Mark and Execute/Point Shoot/Dead Eye/Whatever has any depth at all. But then, simplicity was kind of the point so...whatever.

    Shame Jesper Kyd's not attached to this installment. His music was pretty good in Chaos Theory and Forza 4.
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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