To David Sears - Please consider who your target audiance is | Forums

[Pest_AWC]

I know David Sears won't come in here and chat with us, but if anyone from UBI can get this question/observation to him I would appreciate it:


I am really worried that UBI is not in touch with their target audience with Patriots multiplayer, no matter if that target is a casual Run N Gun player or a strategic oldschool hardcore player.

The Run N Gunners will not put up with waiting a minute for everyone to be done playing in the “Sandbox” and won’t be following any strategies created. They generally won’t want to follow or be followed by anyone. They will do their own thing, respawn, and do it again and again. This was proven with what occurs in Battlefield 2 games when they tried to make it more leader/follower based.

The Hardcore players will love the Sandbox and Leader/Follower. They will not tolerate 3rd person magical cover view, health regen, respawns, grenade indicators, aim assist, “Instinct Icons”, Room Scanners (without some type of countermeasure), or any other unrealistic crutches being forced on us.

Of course, all of this could work out if UBI would allow server side control of all options/game rules and have a true hardcore mode (with Lean/Prone please!). Unfortunately, if Vegas is any indication they do not want to give server admins that much control.

With Vegas, they finally gave in on the third and final patch of Vegas 2 to allow the “High Stakes” hardcore mode that at least reduced the god-like view from 3rd person cover, removed aim assist, and removed health regen.

Unfortunately for PC users, that patch only worked for one round and this final patch was never fixed.

Please start some type of dialog with us, so that we can stay and support this game or be told once and for all you have no intention of listening to fans of the series.

Thank you

[StealthR1]

I bet adding in an awesome hardcore mode by removing (3rd person magical cover view, health regen, respawns, grenade indicators, aim assist, “Instinct Icons”, Room Scanners) wouldn't be too difficult. But I don't think they want do to that as we would prove there ideas for a tactical shooter are faulty. No one wants to be told there ideas suck. But watching the recent video of the two from the dev team, they seem so ignorants that I am pretty sure they have no idea what we want. They have absolutely no clue how to make a tactical shooter. They should take some notes from the Deus Ex: Human Revolution team, they listened to there fans and provided what they want, and US the FANS not only praised the game but went out and BOUGHT the game. I DO NOT PLAN ON BUYING Rainbow Six Patriots!!!!!! UNLESS major changes are made.

[sameer_monier]

I am not sure how the MP will work, but I believe it got potential, and so far I like what I saw

Regarding the cover-camper, I think the devs included the "Instinct Icon" for that reason, so if there is someone aiming while in cover you will see the icon flashing or whatever, meanwhile if someone is sneaking behind your back the icon won't be affected, the Scanners will also make it easy to spot these campers, when you are having doubts you would use the Scanner to check, I think there will probably be a countermeasure like an EMP Grenade or something


I guess the game will be a middle ground, where it support tactics and lone wolf style, of course running and gunning will get the player killed, but some are expert and will be able to survive, I hope they strike a balance between both, since I don't think Ubi is welling to make a pure hardcore title, or make R6P another COD-Clone

Edit: in the target demo, whenever the character went to the side of a cover, his animation kinda changed like he was peeking around, same if he was peeking over cover, so if that's the case in MP too, it would be easy to spot the campers

[Pest_AWC]

Originally posted by sameer_monier:

Regarding the cover-camper, I think the devs included the "Instinct Icon" for that reason, so if there is someone aiming while in cover you will see the icon flashing

Fixing something that is completely unrealistic by giving you something else that is completely unrealistic is about the lamest thing I have ever heard. We might as well have power-ups and teleporters too.

Originally posted by sameer_monier:

Edit: in the target demo, whenever the character went to the side of a cover, his animation kinda changed like he was peeking around, same if he was peeking over cover, so if that's the case in MP too, it would be easy to spot the campers

Unfortunately, I have spoken with someone that saw the real game footage and 3rd person cover is (for now) just like the unrealistic vantage point of Vegas, it was not restricted 3rd person like the pre-rendered target demo.

Let's face it, if they don't have a hardcore mode or options to turn off the unrealistic stuff, the hardcore fans won't play and if they force casual players to wait through "Sandbox" time and leader/follower options, those players won't play.

This game is headed for failure, but if someone from UBI could come in here and clear things up perhaps we could talk more positively about the game and UBI could avoid the most expensive mistake they have ever made.

[sameer_monier]

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
Fixing something that is completely unrealistic by giving you something else that is completely unrealistic is about the lamest thing I have ever heard. We might as well have power-ups and teleporters too.

I am not against a High-Stake Mode, but what If there was none, any solution would better than non right ?!, beside Realistic approach is kinda hard to find nowadays

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
Unfortunately, I have spoken with someone that saw the real game footage and 3rd person cover is (for now) just like the unrealistic vantage point of Vegas, it was not restricted 3rd person like the pre-rendered target demo.

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!

Let's face it, if they don't have a hardcore mode or options to turn off the unrealistic stuff, the hardcore fans won't play and if they force casual players to wait through "Sandbox" time and leader/follower options, those players won't play.

I am more worried about the hardcore fans, if you check GRFS, there was similar demands of a hardcore mode to switch off "Cameo, Reg. Health, .......etc", when one member asked about it, the devs responded saying there was none, so I kinda think that may happen again with R6P

This game is headed for failure, but if someone from UBI could come in here and clear things up perhaps we could talk more positively about the game and UBI could avoid the most expensive mistake they have ever made.

As far as the SP is going, I don't think it will be a failure, for the MP as I said before I am not so sure, I need to try it out myself, I hope your solution comes to be, but Ubi's policy prevent any dev from commenting or discussing anything on the forums, the best we could get would be a Dev.Com. and he will only answer questions from time to time without real discussion about the game

[Pest_AWC]

Originally posted by sameer_monier:

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!

Unfortunately, my contact has not gotten back to me with my follow up questions so I don't think I will get more info.

Also, the view that the press had of the multiplayer footage was brief, so your questions may not be able to be answered.

It sounds like the "Instinct Icon" will show up whenever someone has you in their vision arc, but this is not confirmed.

[sameer_monier]

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sameer_monier:

I am just curious, could you ask him would the Instinct Icon work as a counter measure or not ?!, and if the Instinct Icon would work even if someone is sneaking by ?!

Unfortunately, my contact has not gotten back to me with my follow up questions so I don't think I will get more info.

Also, the view that the press had of the multiplayer footage was brief, so your questions may not be able to be answered.

It sounds like the "Instinct Icon" will show up whenever someone has you in their vision arc, but this is not confirmed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mmmmm I see, I hope he get's back to you sooner than later


BTW Spec Ops The Line is being made by 2k, so they made a beta one year ago, a secret one to have players input on it, their thoughts, and suggestion, how about Ubi doing the same thing ?!, if we get our hands on a beta on 2012, we may be able to discuss everything about MP in confidence, it doesn't matter if it's buggy as long as we get a taste of how things will work out and be able to share what we think with the devs to make a better experience

I am saying that but I really don't believe Ubi would do such a thing, but suggestions don't hurt anyone

[TheProwlrGarret]

LOL! Their target audience is MONEY. I have tried my best this year to really be pro active in my gaming and get on the forums and say my peace. GUESS WHAT!? Its done nothing. Zipper and EA just ban you for not sucking their *******s at how good THEY THOUGHT the game was on their forums. SOCOM and Battlefield this generation are garbage. I also tried on the Skyrim forums for a two player coop on PC and still no one listened, even though my post got a big following. Developers have there ideas set in their minds where the game should go. All the feedback on the forums MEANS NOTHING if it has something to do with your personal ideas, it only means something if it improves upon the ideas that are already there. Rainbow six Patriots will be a failure, cause guess what, Ubisoft does not listen to its fans either. I tried on their AC Revelations forums about changing things up and we got Brotherhood 2 with the same maps and awful awful glitches. Its all facts guys. The facts do not lie.

[Dieinthedark]

I think the biggest challenge for Ubi will be how to make people play this as a tactical game. BF3 is suppossed to be and very well can be, but it doesn't force it. RB6P MUST (again) <span class="ev_code_RED">MUST</span> be a tactical game.

<span class="ev_code_RED">UBI TAKE NOTE: IF YOU WANT THIS GAME TO SELL, THE ONLY WAY TO COMPETE WITH THE CODs AND THE BFs IS TO BE NEW. BRING SOMETHING NEW TO THE TABLE, DON'T COPY FEATURES, BE YOUR OWN GAME, REWARD THE TACTICAL, PENALIZE THE RUN & GUNNERS AND YOU'LL DO FINE. SERIOUSLY, LOOK AT ARMA2, PEOPLE STILL PLAY THAT! YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE IT'S TACTICAL!!</span>

(the caps thing is to just drive home a point, i'm not yelling or angry)

[sonoblink]

I am a run and shoot "type" of guy . So then i have no skill and don't know what i'm doing^^
Watch your words dude there is more to RB6 than sit and camp or even working out a mission type plan!

What are you talking about "AIM ASSIST" There is no aim assist in vegas2 and never was,, I don't rememer any and i've played it from day 1 !

Target is "what" just make a game for like 50yr olds and sell 1000 copy's yea that'll happen !

I don't like to sound cheeky but vegas is my game, its just i hate people coming along with no real experience "gaming hours" shouting as if they know what there talking about sry.
As far as RB6 Patriots goes i don't care what they add to make the game sell as long as it feels like a RB6 game that's most important Saying that i do think having some sort of indicater for hosting server's that could be moved from 1 min to 10mins for people over camping and then they would be exploited on the map as silly camper for team members to head straight for and kill or just kicked from server best).Camping ruins the random respawn also screws up gameplay for us on vegas2
Another thing look at this quick scoping we see in the FPS gender this is another exploit that should be seriously looked at, i hope RB6 Patriots is'nt ruined with this ****.