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Thread: Modern Bf-109 pilot interview | Forums

  1. #21
    Senior Member Treetop64's Avatar
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    Just watched that interview...

    "...Skip says, Skip says..."

    Warbird pilot or not, I think "Skip" is full of it.

    ------------------------------



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  2. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
    You have to read the book by Adolph Galland "The first and the last" H/B if you haven't yet.

    I believe you would enjoy it a lot.


    http://www.amazon.com/First-La...id=1300307667&sr=1-2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh, that would be <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Galland’s autobiography </div></BLOCKQUOTE> right?

    Probably read it before you were out of diapers. My paperback copy cost $1.95 when it was new (so that would've been around 1978).

    cheers

    horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I read it and it wasnt one of my favourite 'Air combat/tactics' books, although it is interesting. There is not that much air combat in it, its more a description of Gallands opinion and problems he faced as a General(or whatever rank he was, I forget), throughout the war, as far as I can remember.

    Compared to Heinz Knockes 'I flew for the fuhrer', W D Duncan Smiths 'Spitfire into Battle (&lt; - excellent book you might not have heard of btw) or Johnnie Johnsons 'Wing Leader', the air combat in Gallands Bio is minimal.
    -------------------------------------------------------------



    "Over Dieppe, the wing was immediately bounced by a hundred FW 190s and a few Me 109s. I heard Johnson effing and bli
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  3. #23
    I don't get what's the big fuss about, he seems to say that the 109 had good snaking characteristics, which is 'what I have heard everywhere'. Ie. Southwood, Hanna says the directional stability is low, even some a Jerry doc fragment I have also says that it's 'gering' (low); and as far as I understand aerodynamics, stability along a particular axis of the airplane usually means less manouverability, and vica versa. This is just the other side of the coin which says that plenty of rudder work to keep the plane 'centered' and fly it 'neatly' during manauevres.

    Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! - Click on the picture to enter the site!
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  4. #24
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    All the bashing Skip on here because he has no actual combat experience in a 109 is wasted... Remember, 99.9% of us are COMPUTER GAME jockeys commenting on a real 109 pilot's opinions... take each with a grain of salt (mine included).

    My 2 cents, Skip probably has a much better idea of the FM of the 109 than Oleg ever will.
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  5. #25
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    What, is it impossible to do as described in IL2:1946?

    Lot of people can't coordinate a proper turn let alone roll in 1946. It may take a Skip Holm to duplicate in the sim what Skip Holm does IRL. If Joe Blow can't match the move then what does that prove about 1946?

    As I pointed out, one US pilot DID slam his rudder hard and DID shoot a 109 he was fighting in the resulting skid. Whether the 109 was better suited to do so, the P-51 with that pilot at the controls was capable of doing so at extreme angle.

    Lot of players shoot from slip in IL2. Just not all of them make hits.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member BillSwagger's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChiFunk:
    All the bashing Skip on here because he has no actual combat experience in a 109 is wasted... Remember, 99.9% of us are COMPUTER GAME jockeys commenting on a real 109 pilot's opinions... take each with a grain of salt (mine included).

    My 2 cents, Skip probably has a much better idea of the FM of the 109 than Oleg ever will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you're into aviation and not just the computer aspect of flight simming, try to get out to an air-show that actually show cases various WW2 airplanes in real life. Watch how they perform. I doubt very much that they push these aircraft beyond a certain point and yet the level of performance achieved in Spits, 109s and P-40s seems to indicate that they all were quite nimble such that any differences achieved would requiring pushing them beyond today's regulated limits, something rarely found at an air-show.
    I've seen P-40s at an air-show go into vertical climbs that matched Spitfires, and still flicked off the top of the loop into a tight radius at very low airspeed. Its quite contradictory to any indication of written history.
    Could it be the lack of armor, armament, and other equipment that might have weighted down the plane to hinder performance in actual combat?
    Could it be that the revisionists fouled up history or exasperated differences even more so than the pilots themselves?
    Who knows, but I found there is lot to learn by actually seeing these aircraft perform.

    Just my observations:
    The 109 appears to be a fast plane with a quick roll reversal. Its overall roll rate tends to be slower, but the fact it can roll in one direction and then snap back to the other direction is probably an indication of its lighter frame and low roll inertia.
    A P-51, being heavier might have more roll inertia meaning more energy is expelled in reversing the roll than what would be required of the 109. It might roll in one direction and not follow in the reverse direction as quickly.
    Hence, why combat pilots in heavier fighters usually followed a reverse roll by simply rolling in the same direction 180 degress until they were banked at the same angle as the aircraft they were following. Supposedly less 'mush' that way too.
    Just to site two examples.

    Bill
    Bill


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  7. #27
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:

    Just my observations:
    The 109 appears to be a fast plane with a quick roll reversal. Its overall roll rate tends to be slower, but the fact it can roll in one direction and then snap back to the other direction is probably an indication of its lighter frame and low roll inertia.
    A P-51, being heavier might have more roll inertia meaning more energy is expelled in reversing the roll than what would be required of the 109. It might roll in one direction and not follow in the reverse direction as quickly.

    Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good observation on roll acceleration! I would, however, attribute this to maximum aileron deflection angles (i.e ca. 30 degrees on the 109, 10 degrees on the Mustang)

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  8. #28
    Senior Member BillSwagger's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(i.e ca. 30 degrees on the 109, 10 degrees on the Mustang) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe so, but i think the speed the aircraft is flying at also will dictate the achievable deflection angle.
    Its also why pilots who make blanket statements about aircraft comparisons should also be a bit more specific about speed and height.
    Bill


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  9. #29
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    Skip Holm may be able to check an FM for a 109 but I seriously doubt that he could make one!
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  10. #30
    Senior Member waffen-79's Avatar
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    I guess, Holm really hit the soft spot

    as mentioned here:

    -He does actually fly those warbirds
    -Not in combat or same weather and condition real ww2 pilots did

    I do 'SOMETIMES' favor real ww2 narrations and anecdotes

    but you have to take that with a grain of salt, also

    remember they are biased by nationalism and propaganda.

    whenever I read or listen to them, I always cut down 30% of speeds, altitudes and victories adn you should do the same, BE SURE

    You need blokes like me to fly Blue side!, BE SURE!
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