Lets rally for a full MP editor! | Forums

[Kai1910]

This is my first post (and its long). I finally decided to join, because i think MP (all this is for PC) is going to suck unless we all do something to get the devs to do fix it.

Everyone wants something different in MP, so... lets have an editor....a big one.

My idea will take effort to do...but I'd rather see BIA come out 3 months later with a full editor than in Feb with a halfhearted or absent one.

First, select your map. The map is nothing more than a large empty area, no scripts, nothing. Just land.

Second, select number of human "captains" per team - this could be an unbalanced number. Some days i feel like shooting up my friends, other days i feel like shooting up some bots with my friends. Hell, sometimes I feel like playing me vs bot skermishes.

Third, select number of Bot captains per team, and the strength of their AI (Winters v **** from BoB). This would allow you to have an all bot squad. I know some of you may not like that idea... but this gives you the choice.

Fourth, select number of human "privates" on each captain's team. This could give rise to all human player games, with one player able to give orders to other players. I'd imagine clans would have a riot with this. You could also have mixed bot/human fireteams if one were so inclined.

Fifth, select number of Bot privates on each captain's team, along with their AI strength. Again, the size of the squads could be unbalanced, but so can skill within a squad (private Johnson is a vet, and private Jackson is a replacement).

Sixth, once all the soldiers have been assigned, you load them up with guns, grenades, and ammo. Guns ammo etc do not have to be evenly distributed. This makes it possible to create any type of map you want. You want balance, you get balance, you want to fight an almost invincible army, you get that too.

Seventh, add starting locations for each squad. Add goals for each squad (take sector 5, defend sector 3 at all costs, kill the tank, whatever). Add time limits maybe. Choose points to be awarded for each mission accomplished. Even put in a larger command structure, where the leader of the entire side can update the goals for any squad during gameplay. This would take the beauty of single player and expand so far with it! What makes Warcraft last so long? The map editor that comes WITH the game, so easy that even a 10 year old could use it, yet so indepth that you could make a map so far beyond the scope of the game you forget what you're really playing. You could even do the "Pop" thing and have deathmatches and capture the flag... or you could have deep campaign-like maps where ammo is short, the enemy is strong, and time is on their side (but you get lots of points for each accomplishment).

Last, your reality settings. For example: No crosshairs, bleeding your health over time, any server-side mods you want to include. Gore settings (from none, to realistic puffs and holes, to some sort of setting you'd expect to see in a Rob Zombie movie). Most of these settings have been discussed, recently how many guns you're allowed to carry. I think there should be as many options as possible.

I can't see BIA's MP doing well without these options (or at least, doing well on PC as it stands now). Battlefield had bots, but they were dumb as hell. COD had no bots, so if one of my friends and i wanted to play, it was 1v1. But this game has smart bots that can think for themselves. If the devs are being honest about the AI's power and the non-linearity of SP, then none of these scenarios should be a problem.

I'm a bio engineer. I study non-linear systems and the emergence of behavior from said systems. When I hear "situational AI", i think of many simple soldiers acting on local information, and together as a team are able to behave in an incredibly complex and adaptive way. When I hear about multiplayer that seems scripted, I see possibilities being thrown out the window.

If I were a dev, I would be jumping up and down for this addition. I would be standing on the desks of marketing, upper management, whoever....I want this to be THE game. I dont want this to be some other WW2 game that was shiny for its time, but will be laughed at a month after release.

Lets all rally together as the customer and demand these options! This game has everything it needs to be the best WW2 game thus far, but with these options for MP, I believe that BIA would become the best game ever!

[Kai1910]

This is my first post (and its long). I finally decided to join, because i think MP (all this is for PC) is going to suck unless we all do something to get the devs to do fix it.

Everyone wants something different in MP, so... lets have an editor....a big one.

My idea will take effort to do...but I'd rather see BIA come out 3 months later with a full editor than in Feb with a halfhearted or absent one.

First, select your map. The map is nothing more than a large empty area, no scripts, nothing. Just land.

Second, select number of human "captains" per team - this could be an unbalanced number. Some days i feel like shooting up my friends, other days i feel like shooting up some bots with my friends. Hell, sometimes I feel like playing me vs bot skermishes.

Third, select number of Bot captains per team, and the strength of their AI (Winters v **** from BoB). This would allow you to have an all bot squad. I know some of you may not like that idea... but this gives you the choice.

Fourth, select number of human "privates" on each captain's team. This could give rise to all human player games, with one player able to give orders to other players. I'd imagine clans would have a riot with this. You could also have mixed bot/human fireteams if one were so inclined.

Fifth, select number of Bot privates on each captain's team, along with their AI strength. Again, the size of the squads could be unbalanced, but so can skill within a squad (private Johnson is a vet, and private Jackson is a replacement).

Sixth, once all the soldiers have been assigned, you load them up with guns, grenades, and ammo. Guns ammo etc do not have to be evenly distributed. This makes it possible to create any type of map you want. You want balance, you get balance, you want to fight an almost invincible army, you get that too.

Seventh, add starting locations for each squad. Add goals for each squad (take sector 5, defend sector 3 at all costs, kill the tank, whatever). Add time limits maybe. Choose points to be awarded for each mission accomplished. Even put in a larger command structure, where the leader of the entire side can update the goals for any squad during gameplay. This would take the beauty of single player and expand so far with it! What makes Warcraft last so long? The map editor that comes WITH the game, so easy that even a 10 year old could use it, yet so indepth that you could make a map so far beyond the scope of the game you forget what you're really playing. You could even do the "Pop" thing and have deathmatches and capture the flag... or you could have deep campaign-like maps where ammo is short, the enemy is strong, and time is on their side (but you get lots of points for each accomplishment).

Last, your reality settings. For example: No crosshairs, bleeding your health over time, any server-side mods you want to include. Gore settings (from none, to realistic puffs and holes, to some sort of setting you'd expect to see in a Rob Zombie movie). Most of these settings have been discussed, recently how many guns you're allowed to carry. I think there should be as many options as possible.

I can't see BIA's MP doing well without these options (or at least, doing well on PC as it stands now). Battlefield had bots, but they were dumb as hell. COD had no bots, so if one of my friends and i wanted to play, it was 1v1. But this game has smart bots that can think for themselves. If the devs are being honest about the AI's power and the non-linearity of SP, then none of these scenarios should be a problem.

I'm a bio engineer. I study non-linear systems and the emergence of behavior from said systems. When I hear "situational AI", i think of many simple soldiers acting on local information, and together as a team are able to behave in an incredibly complex and adaptive way. When I hear about multiplayer that seems scripted, I see possibilities being thrown out the window.

If I were a dev, I would be jumping up and down for this addition. I would be standing on the desks of marketing, upper management, whoever....I want this to be THE game. I dont want this to be some other WW2 game that was shiny for its time, but will be laughed at a month after release.

Lets all rally together as the customer and demand these options! This game has everything it needs to be the best WW2 game thus far, but with these options for MP, I believe that BIA would become the best game ever!

[Colin_Campbell]

Developers are developers for a reason. They love games, if they weren't creating fun games they wouldn't do it. MP is going to be a blast, some people are even saying its twice as good as single player.

"When I hear about multiplayer that seems scripted, I see possibilities being thrown out the window."

Uh, why? When you play enemy AI, its the very same situational articifial intelligence they have in single player, except they are now on missions like capture such and such an objective. The "Bots" in MP aren't dumb.

Sure this editor could be handled by the engine?

"If the devs are being honest about the AI's power and the non-linearity of SP, then none of these scenarios should be a problem."

Wrong, you're talking about mainly a technical side of the engine, not of the game. All of these things the editor would magically be able to do would need to be supported, ingame, would need to be supported by the engine. Things don't magically work, this would need to be thought out and implemented over months of programming that might or might not have already commenced.

Sound good? Hell yeah, going to happen? Probably not. Little close to release to be talking about such an editor and requesting such functionality, no?

[Kai1910]

I understand the bit about these MP bots being smart... and thats my point...

...Im sure that MP is gonna be a blast... but I'd like to see some different options too.

I also know what you're saying about the engine. What I was trying to say about the Bots is that they seem smart enough to know whats going on when you throw them into a setting. So why not have the ability to change thier objectives from a preset map setting?

Yes, I know my request comes a little close, but it's Gearbox's fault for holding MP info in shadow for so long. I'd have said this in July had I known that MP was gonna be this way.

I dunno what the marketing strategy was behind all the secrecy...but now that I know that MP won't have so many options, I have to say this, late or not.

Like I said before, I personally don't care if they hold the game back three more months. Blizzard holds their games back all the time, but that doesnt hurt sales or the company's reputation. I'd like to see them add this and still be ontime, but I wouldn't cry if it shipped late. I might cry if the MP is as limited (by limited, i mean you can't change the scenario, who has what weapons, etc) as it seems at the moment. And by cry, I mean keep my money in my pocket.

By the way, not all developers make good games. Im not saying this won't be, it looks great so far.. but I see more potential.

Look at Enter The Matrix. I'd love to see who sat on what Board Meeting and allowed that to ship the way it did. What a wretched game, buggy, full of holes, poor gameplay, and for no reason whatsoever (other than making a deadline). They had no excuse to make such a POS game from such an incredible concept.

This BIA concept is also incredible. The AI following the behaviors found in complex systems is beautiful!

The one thing to note about complex systems is that while the initial conditions help to dictate the course of events... the system will be able to perform under any combination of initial conditions.

Having multiplayer maps that follow one preset condition will still be fun, but having MP maps that start with any initial condition will ensure that this game has replay value unlike any FPS ever seen.

I'm all for Gearbox making a killing on this game. I seriously want this to be the last FPS I ever buy, or consider buying. That is unless it's BIA 2.

[Longjocks]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kai1910:
My idea will take effort to do...but I'd rather see BIA come out 3 months later with a full editor than in Feb with a halfhearted or absent one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hehe... I hope you meant to say 12 months instead of 3. That would be a more realistic prospect.

[Kai1910]

Because no one knows anything about the engine, my ideas may still be possible. Until a dev comes out and says, "there's no way to do that now", I think we should push to get this in the game.

Who's with me?

[Colin_Campbell]

Anybody who realizes that this game is in very late development won't ask for these things, especially since we're already getting an editor, maybe with or without some of the features you've talked about.

[Kai1910]

i havent heard anything about this editor you're mentioning now. if there is an editor underway, then there is a greater possibility that these things can be added later...?

then lets all ask for the game to be open to additions by modders or by later patches!

[TennesseeTitans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> havent heard anything about this editor you're mentioning now. if there is an editor underway, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah it was mentioned in a fairly recent interview. There is a very good chance that some type of editor will be released.

[Bu11eTJuNkiE]

no offense to anybody that likes modded games or edited ones by someone other than the company who made the game, but i like leaving games alone. I personally can not stand it when someone trys to add stuff or change stuff in games. The only mods that have earned this from me are Desert combat for BF1942 and Forgotten Hope BF1942. Those are the only mods i liked. It dont really matter anyway im getting for xbox not pc.