In Game Video on IGN | Forums

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by Hobbez245:
Hatchet, you try to sound all smart yet you really make no point at all.

Fact is 3rd person makes the game take less skill. People with slow shots or no smarts have a chance with it. That is common sense. So with 3rd person, the game is less tactical. Even if I liked 3rd person that is the TRUTH.

How you talk and act on these forums it is obvious you either just play optimatch all day or you are in a clan that plays very few if any matches. If you played on TC (when active) or Gamebattles, you would see what we are talking about.

We play this game at a whole other level than you so you cannot comprehend any of this. Just for fun...did/do you play black arrow or original rainbow six? If so, what gun do you use? What is your favorite map? If you played matches, what is the best team you played? Please answer honestly.

And your ignorant opinion makes it obvious you have never had to enter a room and be fired at and shoot back taking people down. You have acted like a crybaby on these forums so it is useless to backpeddle now.

Been there, done that countless times, got the T shirt. FP view only people said the same thing about GRAW on the 360. After getting their butts handed to them countless times by people using tactics that had skill, most changed their mind and realize that 1 - it doesn't have any less realism than 1st Person, and 2 - It is a blast to play. You can make assumptions about what I game all day long - which is mostly VBS1 - but you are wrong. Obviously wrong.

Best of all you lose. This thing isn't changing. Most of the gamers will get what they want from the console version and you won't. Feel free to sign off and go cry in the corner. You have brought nothing to this forum, nothing to the community but tantrums arguments and well, tantrums and arguments. Have a nice cry kid.

[Hobbez245]

1) My team played GRAW. We hated 3rd person but we played it. We went 46-4 playing ALL the top teams. We even had 3 teams get to the final 16 in the best buy tournament (out of over a thousand teams) however 2 of us were in the same bracket so only 2 made it to the final 8 and that is where we played eachother again... So only one of our teams made it to the finals. In FACT yesterday was the finals match and my team won (they won a $25,000 car and $5,000 in cash) so don't even question our skill.

2) You are bragging about going into a room and being fired at? Congrats...I don't care...I just enjoy playing games that take skill...

3) You act like you are some amazing player with an amazing team yet I have NEVER heard of you. I have played on Teamcompete, Gamebattles, etc and have never seen you OR your team win ANYTHING. What have you done if you guys are so good?

4) No back peddling here. From the start and to the end I will prefer first person over 3rd any day not becuase I dont think one looks cooler than the other...I just prefer that when you see someone they see you. I don't care if one is not realistic or if its dumb or whatever. I enjoy a game where if you can see them they can see you and vice versa.

[kgetz3]

Hatchet in real life to gain the SA you have to expose yourself to fire(FP) or use a device. In 3rd person you do not have to expose yourself.


Now onto what Hobbez has said. My team and his team are 2 of the best console R6/BA teams ever.

Also when it comes to GRAW, Hobbez team Hammer and Anvil WON THE BEST BUY TOURNAMENT and they will probably win the UBISOFT SPONSERED GAMEBATTLES TOURNAMENT. (Unfortunately my team wasn't able to participate in either :'( )

So don't even talk to us about having skills in games.

Also I would like to hear the GRAW dev team state the reasons for you being able to lean against walls and corners and 3rd/shoot over then in SP but not in MP. I wouldnt be surprise if they reasons were it being to easy, or it slowing the game down too much, etc.

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by Kgetz3:
<span class="ev_code_RED">Hatchet in real life to gain the SA you have to expose yourself to fire(</span>FP) or use a device. In 3rd person you do not have to expose yourself.


Now onto what Hobbez has said. My team and his team are 2 of the best console R6/BA teams ever.

Also when it comes to GRAW, Hobbez team Hammer and Anvil WON THE BEST BUY TOURNAMENT and they will probably win the UBISOFT SPONSERED GAMEBATTLES TOURNAMENT. (Unfortunately my team wasn't able to participate in either :'( )

So don't even talk to us about having skills in games.

Also I would like to hear the GRAW dev team state the reasons for you being able to lean against walls and corners and 3rd/shoot over then in SP but not in MP. I wouldnt be surprise if they reasons were it being to easy, or it slowing the game down too much, etc.

No this is wrong. The most common form of SA comes in the peripheral view exercised during movement or static postioning. While the corner peeking that occurs in 3rd person views is a form of SA, it is just the tip of the iceberg. SA is a constant whether there are enemiy preparing to fire or not. And 1st person view does not encompass this while to some degree 3rd person over compensates - as in corners.

Beating the drum about the realism of 1st person view and then switching to "I just prefer it" is backpeddling. And once again, if 3rd person GRAW takes no skill, there are a lot of 1st personites that were soundly thumped by no skill players.

The point I am trying to make, and it has fallen on mostly deaf ears is that none of the views is wholly realistic. There are just as many holes in 1st person view as the are in 3rd person. Some issues are more serious than others.

It is just a game and what my earlier posts show is that a larger audience is being served with 3ed person. This is not VBS1 made for the military. This is a game. Anytime gameplay runs afoul of realism, gameplay must take center stage. I could talk about realism all day long but to no avail. Mainly because...it's just a game but also it would be worthless as some people have their blinders on and they want what they want. There would be no problem with that except it would actually be detrimental to sales to serve a few wants rather than the public at large.

GRAW has set a clear marker over what people want in a tac title right now. More people will be drawn in by the demonstrated modes than by 1st Person alone. After all, it's just a game.

Having gamed GRAW prior to release at RSE, I can say that one of the reasons for not sticking to walls was that when someone rushed around corners, people were repeatedly dying trying to unstick themselves to turn and fight the person that surprised them. Using the GRAW MP lean function allows you to lean and still pivot under fire without scrambling for a button. You can't pop out or over, but you don't die stuck either.

All of this is as I have said moot. The console version, which is what this forum concerns had 3rd person now, and will ship with it.

[Schwark05]

Originally posted by Hatchetforce:
Two things before anyone gets their panties in a wad. 3rd person works in GRAW on the 360. The majority of gamers prefer it.

Toggle. Sound familiar? Toggle it off. Since when is having a choice bad.

Here is where people get mad. They will play the game and a lot of people will run a room with 3rd person enabled. Some people will complain that other gamers, probably the majority, will not be forced to do what they themselves prefer. Think about that. You want other gamers to be forced to your choices instead of being able to choose for themselves? If they choose 3rd person and run their own rooms, you have zero right to complain if most gamers enjoy something different from yourself.

Ubi has been constantly hammered for not giving the majority of gamers what they want. They were assailed repeatedly with "Most gamers want this or that."

Be prepared for the fact that most gamers might want the 3rd person. Just don't expect everyone to be forced to play the way you want. If you run your own 1st person only room and no one joins, you need to be mature enough to accept the fact that when given a choice, most gamers might choose something other than what you want.

Thats were your wrong. The only reason it is successful is because its one of the only shooters out there. And for a lot of the guys who plays these games for competition (clan matches and playoffs) its not a success because of the third person. it makes matches drawn out and impossible at times. This game wont compete with previous games of the rainbow series if it is 3rd person!

[Hobbez245]

Hatchet...

Just becuase it is your opinion doesn't mean it is right.

1) Only reason GRAW is doing well is becuase there is not one other decent shooter out. If there was a GOOD fps out I would have not bought GRAW along with MANY others.

2) You want the game to **** around...we want it to play matches. **** around = 3rd person better. Matches = 1st person better.

[theeraserhe1979]

Third person is a complete give away. For one, it takes the realism and makes the game more arcadey. Sucks! I prefer Ghost Recon 3 in First person but was forced to use 3rd cause I have to gain the same advantage as the others. All my Black Arrown friends have already given up on this game.

Please Ubi, please use First Person. I miss multiplayer style like Black Arrow. The only differences I want are better graphics, more gadgets, and fewer bugs. Nothing more.

Please don't fix what isn't broken. That's all I ask. Thank you.

[theeraserhe1979]

It's hard to believe that most gamers perfer 3rd person, when I've spoke to so many and many prefer 1st person. I don't see a lot of successful games that run on 3rd person.

Yeah, you can toggle back to 1st person but will the other do the same? It would be a disadvante to me and advantage to them.

Sorry, but I don't buy your comments that most gamers perfer 3rd person view. I still have to hear one who plays Black Arrown and Ghost Recon 3 that they do.

[theeraserhe1979]

UBI please don't fail me. This game is doing great, but 3rd person will completely turn me off. Thank you.

Ghost Recon is fast becoming tiring since it's all about running out there and shooting versus tactics and ability to out smart gamers. I'm raking a lot of kills. That's all because of 3rd person. I like it until I get tired of using it. All the fun of not being "seen" is gone. There's no point being around a corner cause you can always be seen. The most of my option is to mainly run and shoot. Sure I'll be around the corners but not too long. Then it becomes too fast paced and too arcadey. Tactical options are limited.

Please bring back the Black Arrown style of gameplay. Please don't kill what made this game so popular and don't believe this **** about most gamers wanting 3rd person. Honestly, I barely hear anyone wanting third person. Most gamers don't care about either view. But comparing who wants and who doesn't want 3rd person, I believe those who don't far outweighs the other side.

[theeraserhe1979]

I hope the www.teamxbox.com forum below (link) can convince you to go First Person all the way.

http://news.teamxbox.com/comments/10...Vegas-Footage/