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Thread: Why we are NOT getting a Japanese faction, and why it's stupid to add one. | Forums

  1. #1
    This has already been posted on the console forum but I feel that the PC Weeabos need to be nullifed as well.

    Japan was one of the largest players of the Second World War, some may argue that WWII really begins in 1937 when Japan invaded China after consolidating their hold on Manchukuo. Japan would then enter the European War in December 1941 when they attack the American Naval Base Pearl Harbour, Hawaii and subsequently the British and Dutch colonies in South East Asia.

    Japan was also an ally of Germany and a member of the Axis in the form of both the Anti-Comintern Pact and the Tripartite Pact (signed in 1936 & 1940 respectively). Despite this fact the co-operation between the two countries during the Global Conflict was minimal due to distance. (apart from the withdrawal of Alexander von Falkenhausen from China and a planned but never carried out invasion of Madagascar)

    Japan would then fight against the Commonwealth in the South, the Chinese in the West, and the Americans to the East in a series of bloody engagements, finishing in the rout of Japanese forces from Burma and the Atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However due to diplomatic reasons and a unwritten mutual agreement that war would distract forces from more pressing fronts, the Japanese were not at war with Russia until the German Surrender in April 1945.

    Now understandably many of us RUSE players would wish to have Japan in this game, alongside the serried ranks of the other nations in this game. After all it would complete the set of major players in WWII (if we count the UK as a representative of all Commonwealth nations) and give us some 'cool' units like Zero Fighters Val Bombers and Sendai Infantry.

    HOWEVER

    As I mentioned earlier the co-operation between the nations of the European Axis and the Co-Prosperity Sphere was minimal, why? Distance. Now if you look at a globe you might see how far apart Europe and North Africa is to Japan and the pacific in general, if you were to look a bit closer at a map which also showed the physical terrain or climate you will also notice that the climate and terrain of Europe and South-East Asia is also vastly different. The main difference is that in Europe the climate is temperate, and the terrain varying in extremes from deserts in North Africa to tundra in Russia, but overall the climate and terrain is moderate, hills, woods and arable land making up the majority, with several heavily populated or industrialised areas dotted all around, there is also far greater infrastructure with motorways and paved roads spreading all over the continent like a spider's web, some dating from the times of the Roman Republic.

    Conversely the climate of South East Asia and the pacific is tropical, and the terrain is mostly, Jungle, mountainous, and hilly, with marsh-like rice paddies in more settled areas. Cities are few and far between, most of them being either ports or glorified towns with little to no industrialisation, and subsequently there is a huge lack of infrastructure in the region, most 'roads' are dirt paths and rail lines only beginning to appear.

    Due to this fact the art of warfare and field craft differs greatly between the Western and Eastern Theatres. In the West, there is a emphasis on large scale battles covering many miles of land, with co-operation between a vast array of battlefield roles such as infantry, tanks, artillery, planes, and mechanised units. Strategically there is a greater emphasis on movement, which is allowed because the superior infrastructure allows troops and supplies to be moved more quickly.

    In East, warfare has a much larger emphasis on dismounted infantry units, fighting though Jungle terrain where visibility and vehicle movement is restricted. Artillery is mostly light because the roads do not allow large field guns to be moved, likewise tanks are very much smaller, most of them being light tanks like the Stuart or the Type 95 Ha-Go, the heaviest being the Sherman or the Type 97 Chi-Ha. Due to the jungle terrain and paddy fields tank movement was minimal, and for the large part was used for infantry support. Planes could do very little to support ground troops due to the jungle limiting visibility. Overall, fighting was a much slower affair in the far east and strategically the lack of infrastructure in South East Asia made advances a ponderous business, in the pacific it was based on very risky beach landings and 'island hopping', with fleet trains keeping Marines in supply.

    Finally the aesthetic and materiel make-up of the forces involved in the pacific theatre was very different to the European one. The American and Commonwealth forces in the East had very different equipment to their comrades in the West. For reasons which I mentioned earlier tanks and vehicles were on the lighter end of the spectrum, with things like the Cromwell, the 17 pdr. and the Pershing making a no-show for example, the fact that these weapons were needed more in Europe than in the pacific is also a important reason why they were not sent to fight the Japanese.

    Now R.U.S.E. is a WWII strategy game ostentatiously set in the European or Western theatre, therefore the factions involved are based on their appearance in the Western theatre, which for most of them (Italy, Russia, and Germany) was their only theatre. R.U.S.E. Also has all of it's maps based on European climate and location. Even the general mechanics of game favour the Western style of warfare which is based on grand battles, with much less emphasis on micromanagement.

    Thus due to all of these factors the addition of a Japanese faction to the current game, or even the creation of a new game based in the pacific and the subsequent movement of the current factions intact would not work at all. The fighting styles do not fit together, nor do the mechanics.

    tl;dr Version:

    The pacific theatre was a very different place to the European Theatre; you didn't get half the units you see in the current game like Cromwells, Pershings, and Comets (oh wait those aren't in the game, how silly of me), the fighting style was different, with a greater emphasis on jungle fighting and beach landings, which is because of the terrain. So basically the armour base would be useless and poor old Japan would suck hard on a European map. With all those wide open spaces where it's Banzai charges and puny tankettes would be useless.

    Conversely, Germany would have it tough on a Pacific map, no wide open spaces for Blizkreig, no breathing room for it's planes as they get shot down.

    Long story short, Japan wouldn't fit into the current RUSE.
    Steam: fattoler
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  2. #2
    Japan doesn't fit, but neither does Nuclear War now does it? But its there. Its a vidyagame. At this point, its already imbalanced with no hope of being fixed so who gives if it ends up worse off? Mabye something will happen then :\

    - Also don't lure console players over here we've already seen the disastrous effects of that.
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  3. #3
    Fattoler thanks for that post, it shows clearly why japan would be fail indeed.

    Nick yes you are right nuclear mode dont exist either but lets not encourage devs to do next silly moves like adding japan instead of balancing game.

    If i had to choose for balance or Japan its balance all the way.

    Hell i wouldnt even add japan even if everything is fixed. No need for japs kamikazes or silly crap UK tanks in their lines and more bunkering.

    All that japs have other nations already have as perks save for kamikazes. And shot down planes do the kamikaze stuff *cought* depots *cough*

    So any nation adding is fail
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  4. #4
    Naw... this game is Fail without the Swiss tbh.

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  5. #5
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    ^ Of course remember, Swiss Army Tanks!



    Wow OP is taking things too seriously, using this logic France, Italy, Russia and America shouldn't be in the game because they weren't available in all the era's.
    This is everyone in the PC forum

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMvS1Q1sos
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  6. #6
    None of this matters at all. If Japan were added, of course Asian maps would be included, bu this doesn't necessarily have to be cramped Pacific-style maps. Mongolian, Manchurian, Japanese home island, Chinese and possibly Burmese maps would be fine for all factions.

    Japan would not be underpowered. Look at Italy, they have rubbish tanks, but they are competitive in this game. I can see a great deal of ignorance regarding Japanese military tech during WWII. They had an extremely strong air-force and their ground forces were decent enough except for their tanks.

    Despite the weakness of Japanese tanks, they were initially used successfully because nobody suspected that Japan could use its tanks in woods and swamps.

    Many of the units are not portrayed in a way that is historically accurate, so Japan lacking very strong units wouldn't be a problem, in the same way that it is not a problem for Italy.

    The real problem would be adding naval units. I have no idea how sea planes could be added and aircraft carriers would never work with the current design of the HUD.

    Finally, there is no excuse for not adding Hungary and possibly Romania. Each of these nations had armies comparable to Italy's (stronger in some ways, weaker in others) they designed many of their own vehicles and aircraft and were in the war for longer.
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  7. #7
    Finally, there is no excuse for not adding Hungary and possibly Romania. Each of these nations had armies comparable to Italy's (stronger in some ways, weaker in others) they designed many of their own vehicles and aircraft and were in the war for longer.
    Oh but do tell us what did Hungary and Romania had that current RUSE nation do not have?

    Its pointless to add a repainted nation with different flag and no unique perks in their army arsenal.

    They had ****ty tanks, ****ty planes, ****ty infantry they had elite units and everything what they had all other nations already have, so they add nothing to the game except hungarian and Romanian flag.

    Completley pointless just like Australian New Zealand, Dutch, Polish.

    Well atleast polish can give us cavalry to laugh at.
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  8. #8
    If you want to know about unique units that Hungary and Romania would have, here are a few:

    Toldi I and Toldi II light tanks, Turan I and Turan II medium tanks, 48M TAS tank (equal to the panther), Zrinyi assault guns, zrinyi tank destroyers, 40M Nimrod light tank destroyer/AA hybrid vehicle, WM-23 fighters, TACAM T-38 and T-60 and Vanatorul de Care R-35 tank destroyers, IAR-38 air recon, IAR-80 and IAR-81 fighters, JIS.79 and JRS.79 bombers and SM.79B fighter-bombers. There were also license-built German mmachines such as the Panzer III (T-3), Panzer IV (T-4), Tiger I and HS.129 fighter-bombers.

    Theres a reason why they were not completely over-run by the Soviet Union as soon as they were attacked. They were in the war until the very end.

    Of course these nations would have their own perks if added.
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  9. #9
    Let's see, 'balance', quality, spamming, strength, air power, defence, not many perks left are there?
    Steam: fattoler
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by KillaJules:
    If you want to know about unique units that Hungary and Romania would have, here are a few:

    Toldi I and Toldi II light tanks, Turan I and Turan II medium tanks, 48M TAS tank (equal to the panther), Zrinyi assault guns, zrinyi tank destroyers, 40M Nimrod light tank destroyer/AA hybrid vehicle, WM-23 fighters, TACAM T-38 and T-60 and Vanatorul de Care R-35 tank destroyers, IAR-38 air recon, IAR-80 and IAR-81 fighters, JIS.79 and JRS.79 bombers and SM.79B fighter-bombers.

    Theres a reason why they were not completely over-run by the Soviet Union as soon as they were attacked. They in the war until the very end.

    Of course these nations would have their own perks if added.
    Well if a unit is equal to panther then its not unique unit...

    Also if a name is different that does not make unit unique like sturmtigers for example they are unique, sahariana is unique, gvardya is unique, legionares are unique willys are unique(well arguable) 88/90 is unique, Jet Fighter/bomber is unique

    What did hungary has as unique unit?

    I never heared of any allthough i never learned Hungarian or romanian army.

    EDIT: I checked for Toldi and it looks like a ****ty tank really far from anything unique about it it had 20mil gun 20mm armour and 35 for IIa and III tank and the only unique stat i can find its the fact only 202 were produced.

    Turan tanks, everything they had Tigers and King tigers already have better and pershings and IS3 etc, nothing unique to add to game again.

    40M Nimrod Ok thats the 1st potential unit i can say it might be unique to RUSE current armament, but i am not sure how to put it in ruse BECAUSE if it would actually be dual purpose armored tank it might be OP or it might be so costly noone in 1v1 would ever use it or it would have to be carefully balanced which would be extremley hard. But even then only explanation sounds unique after checking stats and seeing armament

    40 mm Bofors/60 AA-gun

    It looks nothing else but a bad clone of m19 experimenting with dual purpose and failing id say.

    I cba to look over all units you listed though.

    I might do it later.

    However i think you dont really get the point of unique unit id say. You can go argue that a slightly modified gun and different name can be enough to claim unit being unique but in RUSE that is not the case. If you rename Carro M13 to Toldi I and Carro M15 to Toldi II that brings nothing to RUSE as RTS game imo.

    Not to brag or anything but partisans from my country(Yugoslavia) or Poland are more unique than Hungarian and Romanian army together compared to the current RUSE nations but its hard to impliment that and balance it.

    I just see these 2 nations as a bad clone of Italy thats all.
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