My rights in halls of residence | Forums

[Airmail109]

Okay, some numpty broke off one of the pins on the fire extinguishers and now out entire flat have a £100 fine each. Including me, on what grounds can they issue this to me with lack of evidence and do I have any legal right to refuse the fine. If I refuse to pay It they can boot me out by the end of the semester.

The wardens here I swear are running a racket, theyre always entering peoples flats.... trying to find the smallest of things to fine people for. Asking for extorniate fines, theyre also very aggressive in a way that to me amounts to bullying.

[JG52Uther]

CAB? or the management? Did you sign anything when you moved in saying you would all be held responsible for damages?
Sounds dodgy to me,but you would be better off with proper legal advice rather than advice of a flight sim forum.

[Airmail109]

I signed a licence to occupy...that was it.

http://www.brookes.ac.uk/studying/ac...on/regulations

There is the contract Im supposedly signed up for by accepting the place in Halls.

I see nothing about being responsible financially for the actions of others.

[JG52Uther]

Read this mate:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/Univer...entHousing/DG_064416

[Airmail109]

1 Prohibition of harassment (1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct"”
(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and
(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.
(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to a course of conduct if the person who pursued it shows"”
(a) that it was pursued for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime,
(b) that it was pursued under any enactment or rule of law or to comply with any condition or requirement imposed by any person under any enactment, or
(c) that in the particular circumstances the pursuit of the course of conduct was reasonable.

I dont see anything in my contract giving them the legal right to fine me for the actions of others. So I guess I could use the above against them.

[strider1]

JG52Uther is on the right track.
Do you have a written lease that includes being subject to fines of any kind, as opposed to liability for damages beyond normal wear and tear? The rule of natural law requires evidence of complicity as a ground to impose punishment for violation of a rule. There should be a written schedule of such offences with the commesurate fine so although ignorance of the rules is no defence, everyone has the opportunity to find out. Check with the housing office.

Who are these'Wardens"? Are they employed by the property owner? What gives them the right to enter the flat at all except under the normal right to inspect the premises on a reasonable frequency after 24 hours notice or on reasonable grounds to believe (not just suspect) that some violation is occurring (such as excessive noise or strange odours or emergency such as a fire)? Check with the housing office. Ask whether the "wardens'" actions are permitted and advise the actual extent to which they go. Where does the fine get paid? Ask what happens to the fine money collected and how much has been turned in. Then compare that to your info of m8's who have paid stuff. Smell anything?

All sounds like it could be a racket. Find out or it could be a long, expensive semester. If fining everyone is a ploy to get the "numpty" to own up, a little pressure from the innocent may get the idiot to fess up and accept responsibility.

Hope that helps.

Strider

[b2spirita]

We had a similar thing happen with a fire alarm in our block. We told them straight off it wasnt us and nothing more came of it - that said it was freshers week so maybe they were being lenient.Im lucky in that our wardens are pretty relaxed.

maybe you are better off talking to them personally and making sure you come across as perfectly reasonable. That way they might back off a little. But it sounds like youve got unlucky - if you think theyre overstepping their limits perhaps its time to go up the ladder?

[Airmail109]

Originally posted by b2spirita:
We had a similar thing happen with a fire alarm in our block. We told them straight off it wasnt us and nothing more came of it - that said it was freshers week so maybe they were being lenient.Im lucky in that our wardens are pretty relaxed.

maybe you are better off talking to them personally and making sure you come across as perfectly reasonable. That way they might back off a little. But it sounds like youve got unlucky - if you think theyre overstepping their limits perhaps its time to go up the ladder?

Im past being reasonable with them. Theyve woken me up 3 times at around 8 oclock in the morning by banging on my door real hard, making me jump with fright as im asleep just because someone left the kitchen in a mess. Threatening fines at the same time.

Strider Ive got no idea what gives the wardens the right to walk in whenever they please. They dont come into our rooms though. Just into the communual part of the flat. (Theyre like mini houses).

I signed a license to occupy which apparently means this applies to me http://www.brookes.ac.uk/studying/ac...on/regulations I states I am liable to fines but it does not state what for. Neither does it state I am liable for the actions of my housemates.

[Low_Flyer_MkIX]

Have a chat with your NUS rep - you are a member, I take it?

[strider1]

regulations is set out below; one or more may be
imposed for each breach of any one of the
regulations:
> written warning
> financial penalty
> full payment of the cost of any damage caused
plus any administrative charges thereby
incurred by the hall or University

Check out the extent of "financial penalt" and whether there is a schedule of same as well as who has authority not only to impose same but whether they have a discretion in the amount. Liability for damages "caused" implies personal participation and evidence of same to justify a penalty.

2 Control over the room will be exercised by the
University. Residents must not in any way
impede the University or its agents in the
exercise of its rights of possession and
control of the room.

Check out the extent of the Uni's "rights of posession" and your rights as having a "licence to occupy". A "licencee" has different legal rights from an "assured shorthold tenant". Ask the housing office of your exact legal status to ascertain the question of entry by wardens and when it is allowed.

I don't think your "harassment" argument will get you very far unless it is a particular warden(s) who is consistently bothering you without cause, in which case you should report it immediately.

Strider1