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Thread: The price of cheap goods from China | Forums

  1. #21
    Well that's a by-product of the advance of rampant capitalism into any geographical area in any period of history.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member MB_Avro_UK's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
    My following post is not directed at you Inadaze. I quoted you for the link.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inadaze:
    Chinese workers under strain comitting suicide
    11 suicides since 2007? It should be higher, not as it 'ought to be' but as in 'I'd expect more'. China has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. This has a lot to do with culture. The young people leave their village to work in these factories, dreaming of making lots of money and having a better life, not to mention earning means to support their parents back in the villages.

    When they arrive and see the reality, very hard work with very little remuneration, they normally don't have the choice of returning home. If they return home without pockets full of money, they return as a failure. They lose face and their parents lose face.

    In Beijing at the end of the school year it is common to see children walking along the street crying and weeping. This doesn't mean they'd failed the year. Most often it means they'd failed their parents' goals and both the child and the parents lose face. Many students commit suicide.

    In China your parents don't tell you to do your best. They tell you to be the best.

    This cultural situation creates opportunities for bad people to exploit others and therefore the conditions exist. But like most processes, there is a chain of events and like any chain it is only as strong as its weakest link.

    The consumer, you and I, are a link and the chain depends upon us as much as on any other link.

    So, whether it is you, the consumer, governments trying to make you look at problems elsewhere, brand name manufacturers trying to gain a larger profit margin, Chinese manufacturers training to get more buyers, or the Chinese government turning a blind eye to make more revenue, as long as we can point fingers at the other links, we can sleep better.

    BTW, another note on culture differences and this I am very familiar with:

    When foreign companies make business with Chinese manufacturers all goes well in the beginning. Normally the first shipment is perfect. But then culture kicks in and messes everything up. The foreign company will always push for lower prices. This is normal but not for the Chinese. When the details are made and hands have been shook, the business is set in stone for the Chinese. It is a normal custom for foreign companies to always push for lower prices but the Chinese don't understand this. They think that the foreign customer is not happy and they'll lose the business if the prices are not lowered. So the Chinese do what they can and this usually means skimping on quality (materials). The foreign company then gets the next shipment at a lower prices but is puzzled by the drop in quality.

    End of business. This is very common. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    This is the crux from the above :

    <The young people leave their village to work in these factories, dreaming of making lots of money and having a better life, not to mention earning means to support their parents back in the villages>.

    China is going through the same Industrial process that Britain went through over 200 years ago. British factories were even worse 200 years ago, but that was the price paid for Britain's Industrial Revolution.

    China's industrial culture may not sit well with the West.But I suspect that they won't thank you for criticising them.

    Also, can you name a country that Britain has NOT had a war with?

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
    Where is Europe? Can it be seen from England? I hope not.
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  3. #23
    Portugal.


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  4. #24
    Senior Member Pirschjaeger's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
    My following post is not directed at you Inadaze. I quoted you for the link.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inadaze:
    Chinese workers under strain comitting suicide
    11 suicides since 2007? It should be higher, not as it 'ought to be' but as in 'I'd expect more'. China has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. This has a lot to do with culture. The young people leave their village to work in these factories, dreaming of making lots of money and having a better life, not to mention earning means to support their parents back in the villages.

    When they arrive and see the reality, very hard work with very little remuneration, they normally don't have the choice of returning home. If they return home without pockets full of money, they return as a failure. They lose face and their parents lose face.

    In Beijing at the end of the school year it is common to see children walking along the street crying and weeping. This doesn't mean they'd failed the year. Most often it means they'd failed their parents' goals and both the child and the parents lose face. Many students commit suicide.

    In China your parents don't tell you to do your best. They tell you to be the best.

    This cultural situation creates opportunities for bad people to exploit others and therefore the conditions exist. But like most processes, there is a chain of events and like any chain it is only as strong as its weakest link.

    The consumer, you and I, are a link and the chain depends upon us as much as on any other link.

    So, whether it is you, the consumer, governments trying to make you look at problems elsewhere, brand name manufacturers trying to gain a larger profit margin, Chinese manufacturers training to get more buyers, or the Chinese government turning a blind eye to make more revenue, as long as we can point fingers at the other links, we can sleep better.

    BTW, another note on culture differences and this I am very familiar with:

    When foreign companies make business with Chinese manufacturers all goes well in the beginning. Normally the first shipment is perfect. But then culture kicks in and messes everything up. The foreign company will always push for lower prices. This is normal but not for the Chinese. When the details are made and hands have been shook, the business is set in stone for the Chinese. It is a normal custom for foreign companies to always push for lower prices but the Chinese don't understand this. They think that the foreign customer is not happy and they'll lose the business if the prices are not lowered. So the Chinese do what they can and this usually means skimping on quality (materials). The foreign company then gets the next shipment at a lower prices but is puzzled by the drop in quality.

    End of business. This is very common. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ...I suspect that they won't thank you for criticising them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Show me where I am criticizing them?

    Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
    Also, can you name a country that Britain has NOT had a war with?
    The list is long so I won't bother. But what is your point?
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  5. #25
    Senior Member thefruitbat's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
    Portugal.
    i've just checked, and who would of believed it (that we haven't had a war with portugal), but your right, lol!

    amazing
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  6. #26
    Senior Member AndyJWest's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thefruitbat:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
    Portugal.
    i've just checked, and who would of believed it (that we haven't had a war with portugal), but your right, lol!

    amazing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Weren't they unified with Spain at one time? I think we may have been at war then...

    Don't quote me on this, I may have got it wrong.

    Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate, are necessary to Human existence. William Blake
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  7. #27
    Some here should check out the sweat shops in the USA if they want to see what a sweat shop really is.
    "Amiable to the Amiable; Inflexible to the Arrogant"
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  8. #28
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    Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
    Portugal.
    lol ... Portugal has been an ally of Britain from some insane date like 1386 or thereabouts.
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  9. #29
    Spot on Mr Galway. The 1386 Treaty of Windsor is the oldest alliance between two nations still in force (despite a 60 year period of Spanish rule in the late 16th/early 17th centuries). Other Anglo-Portuguese treaties predate this, and English troops were fighting in Portugal on Portugal's behalf as far back as 1147.

    http://www.angloportuguesesoci....uk/alliance-history


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  10. #30
    Originally posted by leitmotiv:
    I'll give the British credit, their media does report on sweated labor and on the military-run slave labor factories in China. Ours in the USA does not (because such stories embarrass nabobs like Gates and Jobs who have a great deal invested in their images as humanitarians and cool guys). Al Gore is on Apples's board of directors, a nice sinecure. His indignation does not extend to Apple's use of sweated labor in China.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...ired-stay-awake.html
    I don't know what US news you read besides anything from News Corp but this was reported by many US news sites days ago.

    As for those who are so quick to denounce these factories, in your western arrogance you do not understand at all. There is no forced labor here, the workers WANT this, they NEED it or they would all starve to death. They complain about all the hours worked, overtime is expected and done voluntarily to make more money, the wage is better than manual labor cutting roads etc. They say they are kept in dorms at the factory and fed food at the factory, well yes, that's a godsend to the workers, most are working there from many miles away in the off season from their farms, they come and work long hours to make enough money to survive. If they had to pay for a hotel or rental room and pay for their own food and travel back and forth from the factory to where they are staying they wouldn't be making enough to survive. And don't say the factories should pay higher wages because the western market would not accept the higher costs and then no one would have a job, and also these wages are actually in line with similar level jobs in other fields in china. The west likes to make out that these Chinese workers are exploited and used and these big bad factories abuse them for hours against their will and hold them chained to the factory floor, but it's all holier than thou BULL! These chinese workers are THRILLED to have any job that puts rice in their families bellies, they are not being exploited, the dorms and long hours are BENEFITS, the opportunity to earn overtime. Now there are SOME factories that abuse their workers by not paying them the overtime, paying a wage far below the standard, tying them to the job through threats so they feel they cannot leave for fear of their safety and families safety, but these are run in America with foreign workers brought in for this express purpose, lied to and then forced to stay and work. Does this sort of sweat labor happen in china, yes, sure it does, is it common, no, not at all.
    "The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.[Europe], under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep. If once [the people] become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, judges and governors shall all become wolves. " - Thomas Jefferson
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