Daily Dev S- Boat question clarification | Forums

[aanker]

I posted this question just prior to the crash so I will try again:

Q: P38Ace: I read the article and said the P class, Tambor and Gato are included, but I wonder if the S class and Narwhal class will included as they were in SH1
A: The Narwhal won't be included in the release version of the game as it doesn't fit - historically speaking - with the type of gameplay that we have prepared.

The S-class however... is in.

Are you referring to the true 1917 era S-Boat's (I hope) or the Salmon/Sargo class boats?

Thanks!

[klcarroll]

Wow! ....I hope that's not true!

The Narwhal class boats were very active in special ops; ....and it would be a real shame to not be able to play some of that out!

[stabiz]

It is true, its from the devs.

[TheRealPotoroo]

I've recreated the Collecting Questions to ask SH4 developers! thread. You're probably better off asking there.

[klcarroll]

It is true, its from the devs.

Well if that's the case, then I will definately rethink my decision to buy SHIV.

If the developers are going to ignore historically significant classes of boats, then they are failing to provide a good simulation.

I can buy arcade style "shoot-em-ups" anywhere.

[stabiz]

Maybe, maybe.

On the other hand, several boats are missing from SH3 too. I wouldnt call that an arcade shoot em up.

[klcarroll]

On the other hand, several boats are missing from SH3 too. I wouldnt call that an arcade shoot em up.

That's certainly true, but the boats missing from SH3 don't represent entire historically significant classes.

The U.S. navy, like the Germany navy, entered WWII with what amounted to a peacetime compliment of submarines, and The Narwhal and her sister ships accounted for a significant percentage of that number.

.....And the U.S. navy was operating with the additional disadvantage of having recently lost a large percentage of it's surface fleet: .....the result being that for the first few months of the war, the submarines WERE the U.S. Navy!

It should also be noted that for the U.S., the first 18 months was a war of loss and retreat. It was in this environment that the true value of the big old "V-boats" became obvious. If you read the cruise summaries of these boats, you find success after success in re-supply (in one instance 45 TONS of supplies and ammo), rescue, evacuation, the landing of raiding parties, and yes, shore bombardment with those big 155mm deck guns.

In real history, the Narwhal Class boats were far from "Historically Insignificant". If the Devs are going to exclude "Historically Insignificant" classes, then they should have excluded the TypeXXI from SH3, since the XXIs never actually inflicted a loss on the enemy! (Honestly now, ....how many of you WOULDN'T scream like scalded cats if they took the Type XXIs away???)

There are also valid "simulation" reasons for including the V-boats: ....Their design was an "Americanization" of the German "U-cruiser" concept that emerged in late WWI; ....Big boats, with very long range, and very heavy surface armaments, which were intended to enhance the boat's ability as a "long cruise" commerce raider. (Hence the V-boat's 371 foot lenght and two 155mm guns.)

This design philosophy never really got a chance in combat, as WWI ended to soon for that; ....But in the vast Western Pacific, with Japan utterly dependent on it's shipping network for survival, the conditions favorable to the "U-cruiser" concept were re-created: ....Am I alone in thinking that those would be fascinating mission scenarios to play out?

[Minoos]

how many of you WOULDN'T scream like scalded cats if they took the Type XXIs away???

Although I enjoy the type XXI, it would have been more appropriate to have the type XXIII instead. That would have been closer to operational records ( 6 type XXIII patrols vs 2 type XXI patrols ).
Any moder created type XXIII yet?

To return to the SH4 topic, better let the devs limit the available subs but enhance the simulation model/context for each...

[klcarroll]

Perhaps; ......But the fact remains that the omission of the Narwhal class boats is a serious historical distortion.

[aanker]

Originally posted by TheRealPotoroo:
I've recreated the Collecting Questions to ask SH4 developers! thread. You're probably better off asking there.

Thanks. Sorry about that.

Also thank you ALL for reconstructing that forum topic... (lot's of work ;-)