i was using the shiv manual as i said and wikipedia ,i dont know if you don't know ubisoft must have used the p-1 or p-3 type so the battle was between one of them vs the type 7. and for the type 7 im only the writer here you want to blame someone for false facts knock on wikipedia's door it says i quote " 15,170 KM or 8,190 NM " so since i dont have time ill make a salmon vs type 7 later and if you wish ill use your site?
The SH4 Manual is garbage. It's only good as a drink coaster, or as a shim to level uneven furniture.i was using the shiv manual as i said
On top of that, your compairison is biased garbage.
A porpoise is still a fleet type submarine. It's just an earlier model, a model that was dictated by doctrine. I suggest you research the evolution of the fleet type submarine.
A better more valid compairison would be comparing the porpoise to an earlier model uboat of the same mission type (long range ocean boat), such as the type 9A.
For me, burnout is always one step away.
decimus i see you are the sort of guy who sees his cup is half empty in sted of half full. you beat up on me not recognizing im repeating other sources and you beat up on the shiv manual ,denying it has more ship information than you knew your whole life. yes the porpise is a fleet sub but it was commissioned 1935 to 1945 wile the type 7 was commissioned 1936-1970. as you see the commission time was very close so given the right circumstances and a little fiction these 2 might have faced off in the indian ocean or atlantic. if you are saying you wanted the porpise to win don't worry the salmon will probably beat the type 7 perhaps i may put the salmon up against the type 21.
I see things for how they are. Not how i'd like them to be.Originally posted by CaptianBear14:
decimus i see you are the sort of guy who sees his cup is half empty in sted of half full.
You have way too much wrong. I don't think your very well read on the subject of WW2 submarines. I'll give you an example further down.you beat up on me not recognizing im repeating other sources
I'm not the only one.and you beat up on the shiv manual
Really? So you know how much I've learned about ship information in my whole life. REALLY?! This clairvoyance of yours is fascinating.,denying it has more ship information than you knew your whole life.
And here's that example i was mentioning of you not getting your facts straight. The porpoise class was a Prewar design. No porpoise that I'm aware of, was commissioned after 1937, and most certainly not after 1941.yes the porpise is a fleet sub but it was commissioned 1935 to 1945 wile the type 7 was commissioned 1936-1970.
And a type 7 uboats being put into commission from 1936 to 1970? REALLY?! I have two words for you: Operation Deadlight.
Look it up.
The dates you post do not match reality.as you see the commission time was very close
I don't do much fiction when it comes to history. These two boats would never have "face off". By the time German Uboats were plying the eastern seaboard in Operation Drumbeat, the P class was well entrenched in the pacific. Most of them were already in place from the outset of the japanese attack on Pearl harbor.so given the right circumstances and a little fiction these 2 might have faced off in the indian ocean or atlantic.
Furthermore, you would never find a type 7 in the indian ocean. They do not have the range, and their torpedo payload makes it impractical. No type 7 ever entered the Indian ocean that I'm aware of. Those Uboats were type 9C, type 9C/41 and type 9D2.
Lastly, a "submarine duel" in WW2 is impossible if your thinking about the movie U571. Submarine vs submarine action occured if one sub detected the other on the surface first. In that scenario, you torpedo it just like any other shallow draft ship. Once a sub dived, it was untouchable once it got any semblence of depth.
At any rate, I'm done arguing with a 14 year old (by your own admission in another thread), who can't get his facts straight. If you want a meaningful academic discussion, your doing it wrong. If you want to play fantasy land, keep on as you have.
For me, burnout is always one step away.
those who deny fiction are un imaginative i am very sorry you lack this quality. hey i never said they were commissioned after 37 i said they were IN commission till 45 that is when they no longer are in active service. and if it is true they werent IN commission after 1937 then the porpise never participated in ww2 which we all know they did. i never saw u571. another thing about you saying these would never duel, take the show deadliest warrior samuri vs viking now these would probably never fight but some where in some one's inquizative mind asked statistically who has the advantage if they did meet in combat. what i read about operation deadlight was it was the scuttling of german u-boats that were surrendered to the allies if you mean this was the end of the type 7 you were semi-right the type 7 went on later to be used in the soviet navy, french navy, royal navy ,and royal norwegian navy post war. look under spanish submarine G-7 originally a german type 7 was finally the last to be decomissioned then auctioned off and sold for scrap. yes i know you are not the only complainer about the manual but can you really truthfully say before you looked at the manual you knew the specifications of 80 individual ship and sub classes and models. i say this final piece of advice if you THINK you are arguing with a fool be sure he's not doing the same thing salmon vs type 21 out tomorrow.
This is the kind of questions a program will never answer. Much less if is a TV show.take the show deadliest warrior samuri vs viking now these would probably never fight but some where in some one's inquizative mind asked
You've a trouble with this kind of show: wich model of samurai do you use? One of the end of the Edo era? Or do you set as example one in the Momoyama era? Will be a high class one, or a low class? Fully trained, or fast trained for entering combat? Wich set of weapons? On feet, riding a horse or as naval troop? Or a civilian one? A fully armored pupil of Takeda Ryu will fight in a diferent way than a lighter dressed one of Ichi Nitten Ryu -the former may even consideer to use a fire weapon.
And you've to raise a similar range of questions for the viking: not the same one from the VII century than from the XII, diferent level of training and so forth.
A friend of me, student of Spanish fencing of the XVII century (Verdadera Destreza, dage and rapier fencing: hard to master but so eficient that until the rapier was changed by the Small Sword in the XVIII century, most european schools taught how to fight against a Diestro) told me once that once your tech is good enough, the winner is the better strategist. If you read Musashi, he states that is pointless to stick to long or to short sabre: the one able to anticipate the oponent will be the winner.
What is worst, even in a combat you have to count with luck. Happens in every war.
So you may compare subs for fun.
Spanish fleet was not exactly the higher priority of the goverment, the country had a lot to be done at the time. So most of the ships were second hand ones. Even our second carrier, Dedalo, was an american ship: the USS Cabot (CVL-28). Until 1984 we still had several american subs, Balao class:look under spanish submarine G-7 originally a german type 7 was finally the last to be decomissioned then auctioned off and sold for scrap.
Almirante García de los Reyes (S-31) -> USS Kraken (SS-370)
Isaac Peral (S-32) -> USS Ronquil (SS-396)
Narciso Monturiol (S-33) -> USS Picuda (SS-382)
Cosme García (S-34) -> USS Bang (SS-385)
Narciso Monturiol (S-35) -> USS Jallao (SS-368)
I meet a veteran of one of those subs. Their operational deep was dubious, at best (more than 30 years of active service granted structural stress all arround the sub, stress that you couldn't solve unless you want to rebuild the sub: out of question since is cheaper to build a new one). So in the Spanish fleet their role should be mainly as coast subs, with the ability to sail to Canary Islands.
yeah i know its hard to compare the samuri becasue of different types but as you say i do it for fun like writting small stories. ok here is the battle of which has the advantage salmon vs type xx1
intro
the xxI as one said is mostly a myth because germany put into combat only 2 but in fact other countries made a combined total of 118 of this class. the fallowing navies are the ones that made these boats which about all agree was a work of art: french navy , german fedral navy [post war like the rest] , royal navy , soviet navy , and even the united states navy recognized this subs potential.but coming up against it is 1,458 surfaced tons of pure killer. the match will be close but take into consideration the type xxi is made for a fast speed wile the salmon is made to unleash a deadly arsenal some what bigger than the type xxi.
round 1 firepower
the type xxi starts off because last time it lost to the big gunner gato class. the type xxi carries 23 torpedoes with 6 fore tubes [said to be loaded extremely fast because of some type of machine] and ive found they also carried 4 20 mm cannon [ im guessing for makeshift anti-aircraft. now the salmon gets the chance to show its teeth. it carries 2 more tubes 4 fore and 4 aft tubes. that is the first bit of advantage for the salmon. the salmon carries one more torpedo than type xxi and for guns it has 1 3 inch /50 cal deck gun and i read 4 machineguns just like the type xxi.
the descision is hard because of the similarity but the salmon has bigger teeth and it takes the prize for fire and bite power.
round 2 speed wipe out for the salmon
the type xxi has a top surfaced speed of 15.6 knots and an even faster submerged speed of 17.9 now even fleet boats fans have to admit that is one speedy fish.the salmon has a top surfaced speed of 21 knots and submerged speed of 9 knots. im going to try something new to show you in reality just how similar these speeds are ill add the surfaced and submerged speed of each class together then compare the answer. type xxi total = 33.2 knot salmon = 30.
as you can see what the salmon lacks underwater it almost makes up for on the surface. but its clear the type xxi has a close win not much a wipe out.
round 3 range
this would be unimportant in a battle but it might be smart to throw this into the statistic battle type xxi range 15,500 nm to the salmon 11,000 nm a close call but once again the type xxi wins.
round 4 technology
the type xxi was built advanced and the salmon was first commissioned 1937 wile the type xxi was commissioned in late 1944. the type xxi does have the superiority so lets say a win for the type xxi
final discision is hard to say but lets look at war record there were only 2 german type xxi ever sent on a combat mission neither sank any ships wile salmon sent in 6 none of which were lost all were retired in 46. i know the uss salmon sank 4 ships and im sure the others did atleast a few more. records salmon wins
final conclusion i think this close match is like the porpise and type vii but this time i have to give it to the salmon.
Salmon vs type xxi Winner : salmon
close but please post what subs and u boats you would like set against each other .
If at the end the winner is decided by the number of victims (maybe the better index)... the winner ever is the U-31 class of WW I! One of those toys (U-35) sank 223 ships, with a great total of some 535.000 tons! You can check it here.
Pretty unimpressive when compared with WWII era subs:
Length: 64,7 meters
Beam: 6,32 meters
Draft 3,56 m
Height: 7,68 meters
16,4 knots surfaced
9,7 knots submerged
Range on surface: 8.790 miles at 8 knots
Range submerged: 80 miles at 5 knots
6 torpedoes, with 2 bow and 2 fore tubes
One deck gun caliber 105 mm with 300 rounds
AA guns: none
Maximal depth: some 50 meters
i wont be posting more battles because it is getting time to plant our acres and fertilize them. so good luck to all you boat captains i probably won't post anything till late fall this year. well for a little while ill be off the ole' uss balao and into the ground.
Good, Captain Bear! At least you know the real important work in our world! Grove some good plants, for to feed our submariners!Forum will await you!
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