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Launch trailer - Might & Magic® X Legacy [UK]

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  1. #101
    Well, there are two main ideas to improve current battle system.
    First one is Gyperion`s classic battle system
    Second one yermolayev`s complicated algorithm of battle math calculation.

    As far as I understand dev team ignore completely Gyperion`s idea. I suppose they have reasons.
    As for me, yermolayev`s algorithm does not require difficulte changes. May be it is time to consider this variant. Guys, what do you think about it?

    I like yermolayev`s algorithm becouse several simple changes in battle algoritm can provide a lot of tactical variants.
    Unit speed sets the order of attack. Correspondence of my/enemy slots with troops sets "which troop will fight against certain enemy troop".
    And damage! It is better then consecutive death of troops.

    So being aware of these three features before certain battle I can image the battle like classic HOMAM battle. It`s great!

    yermolayev`s algorithm is very close to classic HOMAM battle but adopted to MMO.

    Will it possable to check enemy troops and order of troops by click on enemy hero, castle, like in HOMAM? It would work efficiently even in yermolayev`s algorithm.

  2. #102
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    First one is Gyperion`s classic battle system
    Second one yermolayev`s complicated algorithm of battle math calculation.

    As far as I understand dev team ignore completely Gyperion`s idea. I suppose they have reasons.
    I am a big fan Of HoMM because tactic battles. HoMM without it' battle system is NOT a game for me. Battles are soul of HoMM.
    I hope to see in Kingdoms something like classic tactics. And I know it is possible for browser game, just look to this short video:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2UYfx7Nu3b8

  3. #103
    Originally posted by GSander:
    And I know it is possible for browser game, just look to this short video:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2UYfx7Nu3b8
    GSander, weighty argument .
    I`m also supporter of classic HOMM battle proposed by Gyperion. Or at least yermolayev`s algorithm. BUT NOT BATTLE IN CURRENT STAGE!!!
    It will be fun when competitors apply classic HoMM battle in their browser game. Becouse it seems simple to include classic battle. So, why not

  4. #104
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    Bah for those blatant ripoffs. Seems the HOMM concept is very popular.
    But it proves it IS possible.

  5. #105
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    The technical reasons why it is not turn based may be good.
    You can even accomplish a great game doing it.

    But still, it wouldn't be a "HOMM".
    Turn based combat is the real nerve of the serie. And please do not call yourselves "fans" while obviously desacrating the spirit of it.

    So, just change the name, make a great game and it will be fine.
    Or integrate turn base battle and it will be fine.
    Don't use such great licence just to make money

    (ok, it will be free but there will be a way to make money for ubi isn't it? prenium accounts or such things)

  6. #106
    Originally posted by yermolayev:

    Well. Each unit(my unit or enemy unit) has its own speed that define the order of attack during the battle. The order of troops (I mean 1,2,3,4,5,7 slots) define which enemy troop will be attacked. My slot 1 will attack enemy slot 1, My slot 2 attack enemy slot 2...... But attack does not have to finish when my slot 1 or enemy slot 1 die. Damage have to be calculated in the same manner as in classic HOMM battle: damage=(attack-defence)*"unit damage".
    In the case of non equal namber of captured slot . For expl: I have 1,2,3,4 slots with toops, enemy has 1,2,3 slots with troops. In this case, the order of attack following:
    1) first round: my slot 1 atack enemy slot 1, my slot 2 attack enemy slot 2, my slot 3 attacks enemy slot 3, my slot 4 attack enemy slot 1
    2) second round: my slot 1 attack enemy slot 2 - in continuation of cycle. Or, other variant, my slot 1 attack enemy slot 1 - repetition of cycle. It`s up to you. Both orders can cause different tactics.

    TWO KEY PARAMETERS: SPEED AND SLOT(TROOPS) ORDER.

    I hope it is clear.

    And this algorithm really has tactic features. And it really differs from Travian algorithm etc.

    Pls think about this algorithm if you don`t want to save classic HOMM battle system.
    +1

  7. #107
    Originally posted by GSander:

    I am a big fan Of HoMM because tactic battles. HoMM without it' battle system is NOT a game for me. Battles are soul of HoMM.
    I hope to see in Kingdoms something like classic tactics. And I know it is possible for browser game, just look to this short video:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2UYfx7Nu3b8
    I know this game, i'm playing it now. But the combats are with NPC or "duels" in the tabern not really attacking other player.
    But the dev team should watch this hommv clon to copy thing from it

    One day i've posted a link to the web, but minutes later disapeared. And that was before the problems of server.

  8. #108
    you all forget something... this homm copy is done with flash... and flashbowsergames suxx ...

    you have long loading time...
    you have to install plugins...
    you cant play it from all PCs because if you dont have administration on it you cant install flash (school / work for example)

    its not really tricky to do that in flash... homm kingdoms is done in javascript without any plugins...

    so i think the devteam will not change the programming background and switch to another language because they would need to develope the game from the beginning on new...


    if they could improve the battle system ok... but please no damn flashelements...

  9. #109
    Member TsuChi's Avatar
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    I have red carefully yermolayev idea and I think it is not the best it can be bcs
    Originally posted by yermolayev:
    Each unit(my unit or enemy unit) has its own speed that define the order of attack during the battle. The order of troops (I mean 1,2,3,4,5,7 slots) define which enemy troop will be attacked.
    This means we would have no possibility to put our units in slots we want - the speed will do it for us, and our army will always fight with the same order.

    The best idea from yermolayev is:
    Originally posted by yermolayev:
    But attack does not have to finish when my slot 1 or enemy slot 1 die. Damage have to be calculated in the same manner as in classic HOMM battle: damage=(attack-defence)*"unit damage".
    In the first post where concept of speed emerged I wrote this:
    Originally posted by TsuChi:
    You place the units in the stack as you wish and all of them fight with that order, but they fight only one round and then the winning unit goes down the stack to 7th place , the unit who were 2nd is 1st now and fights the 1st opponent unit (who were 2nd but his 1st unit died) and after this the winning unit goes down (suppose it was again yours) - it can be placed on the 7th place or on the 6th overtaking the previous unit because it has more speed. It would work like in HOMM V
    This way you have control over armies and slots they will fight in the first round.
    After the first round the speed take care of order of attack so your units might fight with other units than before.

    I don't know if my idea was fully understand so I will try to illustrate it, I will also use concept of damage bcs it is good idea.

    You are player A and have 4 armies, defending player B have 3 armies
    Player A
    slot unit strength speed
    1 A1 100 6
    2 A2 50 4
    3 A3 200 8
    4 A4 100 5
    Player B
    slot unit strength Speed
    1 B1 200 7
    2 B2 100 9
    3 B3 50 3

    Round 1
    A1 vs B1
    losses A1 80, B1 40
    in this moment A1 strength is 20 and B1 is 160
    both units didn't die so they go to the last position A1 goes to 5 slot and B1 to 4
    because slots no1 are empty units form slots 2 move to slots 1, this is repeated for other slots
    A2 vs B2
    losses A2 40, B2 20
    all is the same as with units A1 and B1 except one small change
    Unit B2 have higher speed than B1 so they switch slots, B2 is now higher
    A3 vs B3
    losses A3 20, B3 50 (all)
    A3 has more speed than A1 and A2 so it goes higher (in this exact moment it has slot 2)
    B3 dies
    In this moment Round 1 for player B is over but round 1 for A continues till A4
    A4 vs B2
    (as explained : the order of units player B have has changed bcs B2 has more speed than B1)
    losses A4 18, B2 20
    A4 has more speed than A2 so it goes higher
    Round 1 for player A is over
    The battle continues

    It is important to keep track of Players rounds bcs units can take higher place (slot) only after attack and can overtake only units that already attacked the same round

    After what I described the order is
    Player A
    slot unit strength speed
    1 A3 180 8
    2 A1 20 6
    3 A4 82 5
    4 A2 10 4
    Player B
    slot unit strength Speed
    1 B1 60 7 (round2)
    2 B2 160 9 (after round 2)

    I hope it is not too much complicated to understand and not too much complicated to implement

    I can think of two improvements two this algorithm:
    *Unit can overtake (swich slots) only with one unit (not like A3 who overtook A1 and A2) - this would give next round opportunity to swich positions again
    *In HOMM V and III attacking unit have advantage bcs it attack, kill some enemy and then enemy unit retaliate but with less strength (some of them dies) But it is hard to decide who is attacker. It is bcs attacking player is in some way attacker but units have speed and it is not easy to say if all units of player A have advantage - it would not be fair. If speed of an unit decided who will be attacker , attacking player could loose his advantage bcs his units are slower. Maybe in the first round all units of an attacking player would get bonus to speed for example +2, and then it will be compared to speed of defending unit and then the unit with higher speed would attack first. After the first round the bonus vanishes.

    What do you think?


    ____
    wow!, another big post , but I like brainstorming

  10. #110
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    TsuChi -
    wow!, another big post
    You can say that again.

    TsuChi -
    What do you think?
    I`l just type few things and i`m sure others with more time will respond quickly (and plentifully ).

    a) You did well to notice that if unit can "overthrow" more than one unit in slots it can lead to this:
    If i place my fastest unit last it will have 2 consecutive attacks (1 in first round and immediately again in 2nd round because it is fastest of all my units). And if you take in consideration that fastest units are generally high lvl creatures it could mean 2 consecutive attacks of Dragons or something like that (I can already see ppl typing "bad things" in chat ).
    b) This is more general comment about speed:
    To me speed in this game is about creature stack having advantage over another creature stack when it has higher speed. The most logical conclusion (imo) would be that creature with high speed strikes first. But even this can lead to problems because people would put "fast" creatures in slot 1 and just kill poor peasants with dragons before they knew what hit them.
    All in all, you end up with something that is a nightmare to predict and respond to. True tactical battle anyone?

    Edit: Yaiden - Will servers be reset in this game? I gotta keep bumping this question cause you might miss it in all this battle talk.

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