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  1. #1

    Community Map Editor Discussion aka Map Editor Veterans UNITE: Lets talk, Ubisoft...

    Hi Guys,

    While forums are still realatively quiet, now is the time to plan for the future...To try and keep the forums tidy, we are creating some dedicated "Community Discussion" threads for the main topics usually asssociated with the FC Franchise.This will either be done by new threads like this one, where at the inception I will try to capture a few "killer" posts from other threads, or we will just hijack an existing thread and change its title, which is what I am doing here!If a stand alone thread is raised that could have been posted in one of these, the new thread is likely to be closed and the poster redirected to the correct place to have posted.

    This one is the place to come to discuss community desires or wishes for a Far Cry 3 Map EditorNow back to the 1st post...Cheers!
    CuZ



    Lets get my personal feelings out of the way. I LOVE what I've seen of FC3 so far. There is no game that I have more hype for. There is a lot of fear around here on the Ubi forums (I can feel it) And I share that same fear: The fear of no Map Editor.
    I for one have total faith in Ubi Montreal (although it is hard for me to say after what Ubi did to the latest Splinter Cell and axing Spy vs Merc because it was "too complex"). I have one reason why I have faith that a Map Editor will be shipping with the game:I like Dan Hay.He repeatedly says phrases like "..Of course, it's Far Cry." and "..you gotta listen to the fans." It's phrases like these that make me feel optimistic (although I dont know why they wouldn't just come out and say that there is an Editor, other than to just torture us with Hype.) Not to mention, Dan is alot more positive than Clint, and he seems to have the right vision with this game.

    So I wanted to create this thread. This thread needs to have meaning. This thread should contain feedback from all of the veteran map editors to help improve the Editor, not only for avid mappers such as myself, but those that play them.
    Here are the suggestions from a man that has spent countless weeks of his life attempting to make creative works that people will rate high, and enjoy. There is no better feeling than creating a map and hosting it while getting great feedback and kudos from the ones that have played it.

    MEMORY
    Memory is a big deal. Often times I find myself fighting to either A) keep a high, constant framerate, and B) have enough assets in a map to complete my vision. I'm sure things like propagating fire, vehicle and weapon degradation, and ambiance played a huge role in FC2. But are some of these things really needed? In my opinion, degradation is not needed period. But is Fire Propagation really necessary? Sure it looked great, but it barely served a purpose beyond aesthetics. I would find out if it's something the players really need, or if could be removed all together to make room for something more practical, such as destruction mechanics, water physics, or the over-all experience.LIGHTINGThis was my number one complaint from FC2. Sure, it was in the PC version, BARELY. But even basic lighting would be great to help sell the creators vision and would help the experience to be that much more enjoyable.

    CUSTOMIZATION
    This was a wish of mine throughout the life of FC2. Weapon classes hindered the experience and limited the Creator of the map to have to build the map accustomed to these classes, more often than not to limit snipers, which sometimes hurt the map itself. Weapon placement was a WAY better alternative to this, and allow for the creator to dictate the flow of the map and the intensity of the battle according to how the map was built. This was also an easier, yet complex challenge for the creator, because it either made the map good, or would help the creator determine what needed to be fixed to make the map better. Hence player feedback.VEHICLESThough I understand that the vehicles in FC2 were suited for the location, it brought the experience down to almost unbearable. Slow, rapidly degrading, blown up on the slightest jump, and barely useful. Last but not least, the limit of 6 total vehicles almost ruined the editor to me, not to mention completely alienated creators that wanted to make race tracks for big races. Vehicle degradation and repair is not needed. If it blows up, it blows up. Simple. Let it respawn, wash-rinse-repeat. Give a better limit like 10, 12, or even 16 for the bigger servers or races. One very important thing would be the inclusion of Air Vehicles, at least Attack and Transport choppers. Planes and such may not be needed. And of course Gliders are fine as well, too.

    GAME MODES
    I've had friends that would not play Far Cry 2 simply because of it's limited game modes. Namely the exclusion of Predator Mode from FCIP was a big let down to a lot of people. This needs to change. Or course modes like TDM, Capture the diamond/Sample, and Territories are a must, but including game modes with more depth and complexity like Assault and Predator are not only a need, but almost required. But the BIGGEST Elephant in the room is custom games. Custom game modes would make this Editor SHINE the brightest. Host controlled things like Player speed, jump height, Weapon limits, vehicle limits, time of day, weather, zombie type modes, team handicaps for things like sneaking missions, objectives, spawn limits, ETC. One other big need would be to include Co-Op. Things like Hoard modes and survival modes would greatly expand the life of the game. Things like bot placement, health, type, etc would be great. Also the inclusion of Scripted events per the creator, would be a great touch.

    WATER
    Lets just get this out of the way. Even Dan Hay all but said it. FC2's water was TERRIBLE. Obviously they have already fixed that, but there is so much potential with the water in the editor, that it has never been realized. Waterfalls, being able to control the choppy-ness, current strength, color, etc would be great. Under water area's would be cool. imagine being in an underwater tunnel, and a peice of glass gets shot, and the entire tunnel fills with water in an instant. OK that might be too much, but you get the idea. Clint Hocking had even copped out with FC2 by saying "it was impossible to make different bodies of water on different heights of the map simply because of the processing that was needed in the waters reflection." Lets ask ourselves. Do we really need reflection in the water while sacrificing practicality and function? This isn't required, but would certainly be awesome. Fire was a main attraction to FC2. It would be cool if Water were to be the Main attraction to FC3.

    Let me step back for a second and say this. Even if you only upgraded the Editor just a little. I'd still buy TWO copies of this game....As long as the Editor is there. This thread is simply for the purpose of player feedback from those that have spent so much time working with the editor, and have adored Far Cry mainly because of this feature, the greatest feature ever in a game.I'm calling you out Far Cry Mappers! Fill this thread with suggestions. If Ubi (and Dan Hay) are serious about listening to the players (which is a surprise from Ubisoft.)Then lets help them out!
    Last edited by Black_Widow9; 02-01-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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  2. #2
    yeah man for sure i have also been worried about this. FarCry is the best game in my opinion (instincts predator) because map editor, endless possibilities. I seriously hope this works to get them to do it!!!
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  3. #3
    Also mods, can we get this thread, or one of the map editor threads stickied for continued discussion and for the Devs to see if they come here??
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  4. #4
    Being able to connect ladders. That always made me frustrated that you couldn't.
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  5. #5
    Far Cry 3 Elite Member DapperHayden007's Avatar
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    Well for the water problem all you have to do is get an object, sort of like the water pump, remove the pump itself and have the animation of the waterfall itself, you do not need multiple levels of water though. The animation was edited by a Modder so who says it can't from a game creator, BTW you can get water in different area's on far cry 2, there is a glitch under the map where water shows unless there is terrain going up, if you have played escape maps you would understand what I mean.
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  6. #6
    Originally posted by DapperHayden:
    Well for the water problem all you have to do is get an object, sort of like the water pump, remove the pump itself and have the animation of the waterfall itself, you do not need multiple levels of water though. The animation was edited by a Modder so who says it can't from a game creator, BTW you can get water in different area's on far cry 2, there is a glitch under the map where water shows unless there is terrain going up, if you have played escape maps you would understand what I mean.
    We shouldn't need glitches and exploits in order to achieve anything. Either they are there, or they are not.
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  7. #7
    I agree with a lot of your points. Far Cry 2 is hands down my favorite shooter game due the the High re-playability factor with the editor.

    Good point on the connecting ladders Killa.
    I agree with removing the water pump and adding waterfall items. Also, multi-level water should be required in this one.
    The one thing I would like to see is some sort of flattening option like in most vector art programs. If the game would somehow flatten all of the objects that make up your uploaded map and erase the hidden portions, it seems to me that would help a lot.
    And why can't every object also contain occlusion, so that all objects block further rendering of things out of view?
    It took me forever to find the undo button in FC2. I must have made 15-20 maps before I realized it was there. How about putting that in the instruction booklet for new users?
    One of the greatest things of versatility I believe was added to this new game is the clear water. This alone should make for some maps with crazy twists and turns, or even completely underwater maps with small areas to pop up and do battle. One thing I want to know is... is there a gun you can shoot underwater? Please give us a spear gun.
    I wouldn't mind if this game was based around water. After all, it is kinda hard to have fire propagation in a rain forest. The only thing a reflection is going to be good for is hiding under water predators.

    If this game gets an editor, I will probably buy it on all 3 platforms. Provided my pc can handle it.
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  8. #8
    Originally posted by CaptainDEEZ:
    I agree with a lot of your points. Far Cry 2 is hands down my favorite shooter game due the the High re-playability factor with the editor.

    Good point on the connecting ladders Killa.
    I agree with removing the water pump and adding waterfall items. Also, multi-level water should be required in this one.
    The one thing I would like to see is some sort of flattening option like in most vector art programs. If the game would somehow flatten all of the objects that make up your uploaded map and erase the hidden portions, it seems to me that would help a lot.
    And why can't every object also contain occlusion, so that all objects block further rendering of things out of view?
    It took me forever to find the undo button in FC2. I must have made 15-20 maps before I realized it was there. How about putting that in the instruction booklet for new users?
    One of the greatest things of versatility I believe was added to this new game is the clear water. This alone should make for some maps with crazy twists and turns, or even completely underwater maps with small areas to pop up and do battle. One thing I want to know is... is there a gun you can shoot underwater? Please give us a spear gun.
    I wouldn't mind if this game was based around water. After all, it is kinda hard to have fire propagation in a rain forest. The only thing a reflection is going to be good for is hiding under water predators.

    If this game gets an editor, I will probably buy it on all 3 platforms. Provided my pc can handle it.
    The draw distance in FC2 was terrible, that's why I didn't want any occlusion in it. If occlusion was on every object in FC2 making structures out of objects would be a pain.
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  9. #9
    If they just filled every unseen portion of objects with occlusion, that might work. This would work in the case that they could flatten the entire map into less pieces before uploading to the servers.

    One other thing I would like to see added is the ability to select from a few different scenes for outside of the sandbox. I think that would help to add depth to your map if the game would render something besides "sky" outside of the sandbox.

    And tunneling.
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  10. #10
    Yeah, custom sky boxes would be cool!
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