Bring back hobo Sam Fisher | Forums

[kalle90]

Hobo Sam gameplay footage does look interesting and well built. Not really the kind of SC play we've been used to. My big complaint with it is that it looks like the entire experience is based around chucking AI around and flipping tables, throwing boxes etc. Like a total environmental destruction derby, trashing space after space in VERY unstealthy fashion.

I get similiar impression from the real Conviction. Back in the gameplay videos it was all about M&E, throwing people out of windows and infinite ammo with simplified stealth. Oh and smashing people's heads in to the urinal.

They still had the same "Getting noticed used to be the end of game, here it's the beginning" slogan even with the old build, which I hate. You can't call it a stealth game, if not getting noticed isn't the meat of the game. Still, you can tell there were plenty of subtle distractions available from stealing the phone to luring guards. It's just the way of this market to show off all the action bits. We don't know much of what could have been.

Talking about Bourne, that old build would have been way more like Bourne. Walk out in the crowds constantly observing around, doing quick evasive manouvers, cause distractions and when it hits the fan; hand-to-hand combat is your number one method. And all the small stuff like blocking a door with a chair, I can just imagine the intensity of guard trying the handle and starting to bash the door as Sam is trying to hack a computer. Way better line of thinking than the current "Who should I kill first? How to take everyone out without giving them a chance to react?"

I can easily see Jade promoting hobo-Sam, because it's so close to Assassin's Creed in certain ways.

[SolidSage]

^ Hmm, interesting. I think Hobo Sam would need better styling, a lot of graphical upgrading and a better move set. Creed is beautiful, '07 not so much. Smashing a dudes face into the table rather than flipping it, Bourne style hand to hand, not the throws of '07 but mor grapple oriented, judo, Hapkidi, leverages not weight lifting manuevers.

I'm not exactly sure what Jade Raymond was responsible for with Creed. All of it? If so I am certain she could make SC appeal in that mold. No doubt...if it was Creed quality.
Maybe she WILL make a change up...wouldn't that be exciting/scary?

As it is though SCC feels like SC to me, and I wouldn't want to trade that. So I guess we just need them both.

[kalle90]

Yea even the old build still needed work, but I feel people shot it down too fast because Sam threw people 10 yards and whatnot. We don't know how finished the game was exactly. Anyway it certainly seemed less like an action shooter and more of a stealthy thinking game, and in line with the series. Ghosting, no kills, Sam being the aged responsible man he is etc. all seemed to be there.

Just to be clear I don't want SC to turn into Creed exactly, I was worried of that back then. Creeds only have social stealth with unreliable line-of-sight stealth, and way too much emphasis on contextual controls that cause a lot of frustration and simplify the game. It sounded bad when Ferland said they only have stealth, neutral and aggressive buttons that do everything in the old Conviction build. Kinda like in Creed I assume. You are standing right next to a table and an enemy, you press the "Aggressive" button and it's hard to guess whether Sam interacts with the table or the enemy, and in what way (will he throw the table at the enemy, or smash his head at the table or what). That would have been bad. I still wanted to be able to crouch wherever I want to make myself a smaller target as well as lurk in some dark corners, or jump and climb anything climbable whenever I want. In that sense I'm glad we got what we got, I'm still in total control of Sam (with the exception of those awful scripted crowd scenes and other minor annoyances such as door peeks), in the end though I still feel that they chose the easy way out. They could have made an awesome new kind of SC that still has the same style (stealth, ghosting, distractions, realism (no infinite ammo, regenerating health, speed climbing and all that)), but they ended up making a shooter game (with lacking stealth features) that is inferior compared to the older games in many ways.

Buuut what is done is done, we already got Conviction and it makes little sense to make Sam disguise himself and go underground anymore. Whatever SC6 is I hope they bring that Clancylike pseudorealism back and atleast make everything from infinite ammo to LKP to projected images to black/white screen optional, as well as slow down the pace a bit with ability to drag bodies and making the levels more complex and open.

EDIT:
As for Jade, I don't know what her role was in AC exactly, but it was no doubt important. I know that I'm a tad worried of her being involved in SC though. We saw how much the style changed when Beland came in charge of Conviction. It could be that Jade tries to mold Splinter Cell away from its roots to what she wants just like Beland did. Ofc I don't know if Jade exactly gets to decide anything about the game or is she just the new figurehead because Beland got quite a lot of criticism from his panther talk. But Conviction didn't get too impressive Metacritic scores (worst SC atleast) so I wouldn't be surprised if Jade is the new real lead. Things probably change, but will it be for better or for worse? Though I dislike Conviction enough to doubt that it could get any worse.

[farttt]

I think Sam looks very similar in ALL of those images. Quite suprised actually at how close the facial structure is.

Hobo Sam gameplay footage does look interesting and well built. Not really the kind of SC play we've been used to. My big complaint with it is that it looks like the entire experience is based around chucking AI around and flipping tables, throwing boxes etc. Like a total environmental destruction derby, trashing space after space in VERY unstealthy fashion.
I think it's a good look and could well be made into a good game, and might even be a reasonable take on how Sam would have to do it as a rogue agent. But in all, I think it may be a better vehicle for another game, I like the usual approach to exploring environments and interacting with AI.....I do like it a bit quicker though....a lot quicker actually.

but i think 07 sam's more similar than 09

[Andre202]

I think the old build is a lot more above AC when it comes to the realisation of the Social Stealth concept. I don't think that any AC game crossed that line which the old build was capable of and I think it's a shame that AC still hasn't improved the Social Stealth concept that much.

When it comes to the ideas of what SCC 07 would offer, it has a lot of things of which you would dream of in AC. A developer gave one example when the police is hunting Sam. You enter a building or a room and let the door open. On the other side of the building or room you open another door but you don't pass it you go back into the room and hide there. When the NPCs, the police, reach the room and see the open door they will think you escaped through that door and pass the room without considering that you might be there.

Through screenshots you could also see that SCC 07 also had some kind of cover system. It's definitely not the same as in the new system but I can imagine that they recycled and improved the system from the old build.

[kalle90]

There really aren't much indoors in AC. That alone would have made old Conviction unique. You can't just rely on huge crowds moving back and forth.

[Andre202]

There really aren't much indoors in AC. That alone would have made old Conviction unique. You can't just rely on huge crowds moving back and forth.

Yes of course. But the AI could react the way as shown in the example. That's not the case. They always know where you actually are and often run after you til they reach your hideout in AC. They don't go for the last known position or for some hints where you might have been gone. For example you could use some distractions (destroy the shops of some people etc.) to draw a line for the soldiers which are hunting you. While they follow that line, at the same time you hide on a comepletely different place.

[farttt]

i think 07 was different ,it has something new,you could pick up any objects and took them behind the door and guards couldn't open the door and catch you,
you could choose stealth ways or you could be angry and fight whit them(throw them,throw tables chairs,braking glasses) ...............

[farttt]

conviction again? marking again action agaainnnnn? they think we are idiots?