SHV: Make or break subsims forever | Forums

[davewave82]

Hi All.
As the title to this post states, I think that this next title in the silent hunter series will either make or break the genre.
Now we have to be realistic in what the developers can achieve.

Historically, the biggest advance was from SH2 to SH3 with the introduction of crew and dynamic campaign.

SH4 unfortunatly, despite the improved graphics, was SH3 but in the pacific. Lets face it, war under the sea happened enmasse in the atlantic, not pacific.
As such, players (i speak for myself here) really didn't get into the whole feel of "hunter becomes hunted".

Thus finally we come back to SH5 in the atlantic before. If the developers were listening to the fans, this was a step in the right direction.

Now all releases of all the SH games have been buggy and in some cases unplayable out of the box.

We like to request, wish and hope for amazing extras, destroyer command addons etc etc..
Right now we should be praying for a game that comes out finished and in some sort of working condition.

We shouldn't be relying on mods to fix the game. And if this is the case, then I think its in the developers best interest to strongly consider doing a beta test and offering those who have been around the longeset in the MOD DEV community a chance to pitch in (as was seen in EGOSOFT's X2 and X3 games).

This would help the developers in several ways:
1) They would save money and time on testing. seeing as they are a small company, they could focus more time on other features whilst the beta testers squash all those bugs that jump out the box.

2) The community would become involved in the game and more likely to buy a product they had confidence in. The confidence would come from the fact that "one of them" (aka the MODDERS) were having a part in making the game playable.

3) By allowing others to beta test you in effect increase the number of staff you have working on the project. And lets face it, I may be speaking only for myself here, but I would work for free to develop SH5 into a polished gem and so would other modders. Once again, improving time and money spendature on the project.


And now for my realistic prediction on the game:
Based on the videos I've seen, screenshots, trailers, FAQS and forums I think the following:

1) Graphics will be on par with SH4 with maybe a few extra effects added that, to the average gamer, would probably go unnoticed.

2) Dynamic campaign will be there along with the usual crew control, weapon loadout and technology progression through the war.

3) I think that the whole "walking around the ship" feature will be nothing but a gimmick and, even though i've wanted this feature since SH3, I think will ultimatly be a hinderence and will not serve to augment the gameplay and, dare I say it, the experience itself.

4) CPU Specs will be on par with SH4 and maybe allow for Multicore processing, but i'm not holding my breath.

5) Some videos have revealed to me that the game may be somewhat "dumbed down". This day and age PC games (particularly niche market like subsims) are competing with console games etc. As such, SH5 may become more arcade style in control. Unfortunatly it will also be trying to hold onto the simulation feel.
I forsee this to be a disaster as it will be neither here nor there and create an unfinished look to the game (just look at Battlecruiser 3000AD).



With all this in mind, I see two things:

1) The few extra features and "gimmicks", combined with the initial bugs out of the box and the half sim half arcade style will almost certainly bore those hardcore subsimmers out there, if not straight away, eventually.

2) Casual gamers will come along and think, "wow this game looks alright" but immediatly get bored of it because of the simulation elements such as waiting forever for an encounter, no respawning etc... and may deter them away.


I feel that public beta testing may help reduce some of these effects but not entirely.

I also think that a company who develops games in the 21st century for niche market will fail when trying to create a sim game for the arcade generation (despite us many sim fans). Its just simply not economically viable.

My final thoughts are that SHV has to come out of the box on fire, because even if the above elements are true, we cannot be treated to yet again another SH3 game with bugs. This would simply kill all of our hopes for a near future redemption and I'm positivly sure that SH5 will be the last silent hunter. After all this time, effort, mods, forums, bugs and planning, if SH5 is not in some kind of decent shape out of the box, then its GameOver for the developers and this genre.


-Dave.

P.S. Sorry for the grim outlook, I do have hope that we will all be plesantly surprised but as I stated at the beggining, this was a "realistic" interpretation of only current events.

Would like to hear your comments please!

[AbleMaster]

I hear what your saying and your thoughts have been echoed here in these forums before. I believe, well hope that SH5 will be a step in the right direction, certainly graphically improvements are obvious. Gameplay and campaign are said to be improved upon SH3+SH4. I expect those that have used SH3 will be ready for SH5 as it will be a familiar ride with the same units and much the same campaign although more dynamic. My hope is that arcade style play will take a back seat, looking at the previews etc i fear it is creeping in, but i could be wrong and hope i am. Either way i will buy SH5 and hope that with todays improved technology and multicore support SH5 will be what we all want it to be, realism is what most of us want i believe, sure the usuall choices will be available to make things as hard or easy as we choose, so with all that SH5 just has to be a big leep forward, doesn't it? Hope so.

[Ducimus_Rapax]

SH4 unfortunatly, despite the improved graphics, was SH3 but in the pacific. Lets face it, war under the sea happened enmasse in the atlantic, not pacific.
As such, players (i speak for myself here) really didn't get into the whole feel of "hunter becomes hunted".

I stopped reading here. This strikes me as (edit) very opinionated. If you want to make a valid point or argument, you could try doing it without taking subtle jabs at other peoples interests.

[davewave82]

i suppose you are right.
But this is a post reflecting as stated before, my opinion and i do have high hopes for SH5

[yngvef]

Well, I don't totally agree, Dave.

Yes, SH3 had bugs.
Yes, SH4 had bugs.
And yes, SH5 will have bugs.

BUT: they are submarine simulators!. If there were other submarine sims on the market I could "take my business elsewhere", but I can't.

Besides, after a while, both SH3 and SH4 was patched and modded and became amazing games/sims that a lot of people enjoy, even several years after their release. (How many people will be playing "Call of Duty: Modern warfare 2" in a year??... or two years??).

I agree with you that Ubisoft should consider working closer with the community and the modders, because there are some real talents out there that could make a good contribution.

Also, you said you're worried about realism being "dumbed down". I think we shouldn't have to fear this. The devs have clearly said that all the same realism options will be available as before (both in SH3 and SH4). I believe them on this point.

My point: Ubisoft Romania is the ONLY game/sim developer that I know of that are still actually making subsims in a world filled with console arcade games, first-person shooters, kids' games, sims-games and mediocre strategy games. We should be grateful that they try to do the extremely difficult job of being developer of complicated games like subsims.

The simulation genre has been dying for many years... Uboatsoft ..err... Ubisoft are one of the few companies keeping it alive... And for that I'm grateful.

So I say: Lighten up a bit. Be thankful that SH-games exist and get ready to do some patching before you can fully enjoy ANY software product today.

Just my opinion

[socko2009]

Well, ….since previous posters have stressed that we are talking about opinions here; ....I'll share mine.

Anyone who comes here with a carefully considered list of wishes and hopes based on their previous SIMULATION experience is going to be horribly disappointed in SH5!

The product that is slowly being revealed to us, a little bit at a time, clearly targets the “Casual Gamer”, …..And it shows every sign of having been engineered with a future console release in mind. (Witness the dramatically “dumbed-down” periscope display!)

Those of us who have been UBI customers since SH1 want CHESS and UBI is planning on serving us CHECKERS!!


S.

[Maverick_U2007]

It's like asking for a date with a top Supermodel and finishing up with......
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.
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Hilary Clinton



Maverick

[davewave82]

If I was trying to be impartial I would be publishing this in an editorial not on the forums.
I have a right to whine and complain if I like but really I'm just trying to voice the opinions of a few miscontented individuals and soothe them somehow but making seem like its not so bad.


Now the way I see it, a periscope view that has no graduations as seen in that video is going to make it impossible to do a manual torpedo attack.
Perhaps someone should field a question to the Q&A: Will the realistic settings alter how "streamlined" the interface is. In otherwords, having the map and periscope and rudder controls all in the one screen? This does not seem realistic however for this one point:
The captain would have his eyes fixed on the periscope and be giving out orders (as seen in several Uboat movies), and so would be inconvenient if you had to keep leaving the periscope view, walk around and find your navigator just to say "move rudder 5 degrees port". Which by the time executed would probably be invalid for the current situation.

I think/hope, that they can create a little popup menu down the bottom that acts like the captains "shout" menu. This would allow you to shout out orders like direction change, dive etc without taking away from the whole first person experience.
Or alternativley (and I think unlikely), some kind of voice recognition to process real spoken commands and tie them into keyboard presses.

As I say. This SH5 will make it or break it for the following audiences:

1) Hardcore sub sims who have no where else to go will find themselves retreating into older itterations of SHX or waiting for GWX mods to save the day, hopefully the game allows great modding ability. (by the way, I think this is a cheap attempt by the devs to make the game seem more appealing by "delegating" unfinished work to potential modders).

2) Console gamers or casual pc gamers will pick the game up, play for a bit and get bored.

Anyway thats all for now..
Still hope SH5 will be great and I still will buy it, but I hope this forum will fuel the Devs motivation to in the future bring life into the game should it fall beneath some of our expectations.

[Pacific_Ace]

Apparently all they could achieve was to limit subs to one type and the war to 1943. I don't give a flying rip how good walkabout is, I'm not buying such a game. Too much cool technology is only seen in the last 18 months of the war and so will never be a part of SH5. Deal breaker.

[walkirie]

Originally posted by yngvef:

BUT: they are submarine simulators!. If there were other submarine sims on the market I could "take my business elsewhere", but I can't.

)

we dont have another choise , at the moment this is the only one available submarine simulator