1. #1
    bigvette's Avatar Senior Member
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    Check out the 2003 orders for Boeing, certainly seem to be quieting the recent trend towards Airbus as I see it.

    http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

    Boeing is up to 151 net orders thus far, and the total deliveries for the year are just as impressive at 167 thus far:

    http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...Type=CurYrDelv

    I could have sworn I just recently read some Airbus (propaganda?) about how they have been out-selling Boeing over the past few years, so what's the real story?

    I just rode on a NW A319 a few weeks ago and they were making all this commotion over their new A330 and such. Well, they just took delivary of 6 new 757's this year, so what's the big deal?!

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  2. #2
    bigvette's Avatar Senior Member
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    Check out the 2003 orders for Boeing, certainly seem to be quieting the recent trend towards Airbus as I see it.

    http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

    Boeing is up to 151 net orders thus far, and the total deliveries for the year are just as impressive at 167 thus far:

    http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...Type=CurYrDelv

    I could have sworn I just recently read some Airbus (propaganda?) about how they have been out-selling Boeing over the past few years, so what's the real story?

    I just rode on a NW A319 a few weeks ago and they were making all this commotion over their new A330 and such. Well, they just took delivary of 6 new 757's this year, so what's the big deal?!

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  3. #3
    qrazi wrote:
    - a few weeks/months back there was a topic in which
    - there was a boeing vs airbus discussion, and a few
    - people said the boeing is more comfortable then the
    - airbus... wonder how the airbus will be then...
    -
    - 99th Skywolves

    A lot of it depends on who is operating them. I went on a business trip to Sao Paulo last year and was excited to fly the main leg in a 777, expecting a very comfortable trip. Well, I soon realized that the operater (United Airlines) had packed those seats in about as tight as they could. Airlines get basically whatever they want when it comes to furnishing an aircraft, and they usually go for the cheapest option.

    "I never use shampoo with milk or eggs. These are imperialist ideas." - Muammar al-Qaddafi - 365 Dumbest Things Ever Said
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  4. #4
    bigvette's Avatar Senior Member
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    Yeah, that's an interesting point you all bring up - passenger room. That A319 I flew from KMSP to KIAH on NorthWest had the seats so close to each other that when the dude in front of me put his seat back in recline, I couldn't even get my tray table to go all the way down without hitting my knees - and I'm only 72" tall! However, I soon realized that this was not because of a bad Airbus design, it's just the carrier that chooses how to pack in their passengers. The A320 series certainly did seem a little wider than the 737 series, and I think I confirmed this in a message forum I was in when somebody seem to mention the same thing, but again even then that in and of itself is really not a big deal.

    What I wonder is do airlines actually take into account factors such as speed, time to altitude, fuel burn, range, and cost per mile or are they close enough so as to go with the one that gives them a better deal? Personally, I think the A380 is too large and will be too costly to operate because even in a prime market it will be hard to fill up with "revenue."

    The Airbuse's seem to have good long ranges, but how much does that cost per mile when compared to a Boeing equivalent aircraft? How much revenue per flight (# of pax and all?)

    I purchased PSS A320 series for FS2002 and can't wait for their '04 patch because even as a die-hard Boeing fan, it was seemingly a great aircraft. I look forward to their A330 aircraft in September and will buy it on the spot just because I'm a huge flight-sim junkie, but that doesn't mean if it were my airline that I'd be buying some Airbuses anytime soon!

    One thing about the Airbuses that I did notice (and this was confirmed by a close friend of mine who is a captain on MD-88's for Delta when he sat in the jumpseat of one on a return flight,) that the Airbuses seem to take a longer time to get up to altitude for whatever reason. Also, I think their cruise speeds (in general) are a little slower as well.

    As for Boeing being a bad company, I think you can't judge a company on a few bad apples worth and I dare to say that I think that is probably the norm in the industry and they just got caught. Don't worry about the USAF ever buying Airbuses because the US Congress would never approve of the deal even if the AF wanted it. And it's not like France doesn't directly support Airbus as well - their both more than just another business.

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  5. #5
    nicolas10 wrote:
    - Boing isn't a honest company. Just look at their BN
    - $ contract removed because they stole documents from
    - lockheed.
    -
    - In the same fashion they seeked political support in
    - the white house to promote the sale of their new
    - tanker. They also were provided the details of
    - airbus's offer by the US airforce.
    -
    - Bunch of crooks.
    -
    - Nic
    -
    <img
    - src="http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorpho
    - to/cookie.jpg">
    -

    Yes, some of Boeings' deals have not, shall we say, reflected the ideals of Free Trade.

    However, I recall from most of my Int'l Economics courses that Airbus has a well-documented history of being subsidized and protected. That may or may not currently be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if politics is still mixing with business to ensure Airbus's continued success.

    Edit - Sorry, Bigvette made the point already.

    "I never use shampoo with milk or eggs. These are imperialist ideas." - Muammar al-Qaddafi - 365 Dumbest Things Ever Said

    Message Edited on 09/05/03â 10:24AM by LawDog15

    Message Edited on 09/05/0310:26AM by LawDog15
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  6. #6
    - I have a pilot friend who flies the A330 for BMI
    - often on routes like Manchester to Chicago..... he
    - says he thinks the Boeings are safer and more trust
    - worthy ... however he prefers to fly the airbus...
    - go figure
    - I guess its the
    - A320/30/40 being Fly by wire . No doubt the 777 is
    - fly by wire and one hell of a plane, but he has
    - never flown one

    Alright, that's spooky.

    I flew BMI from Manchester to Chicago and back earlier this year . . . and according to the little flight booklet in the back of the seat, they only have one A330, and I was in it.

    'Tis a small world . . . . [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif[/img]


    The A330 was brand new, mind. I thought it was a very nice aircraft . . . the 777 was nice when it was new, but is starting to fade a bit now . . . and I just don't like the 747's.


    Didn't Airbus overtake Boeing this year?
    Thought it was the first year one of them had passed an order book of three hundred, and Airbus got there first . . . right?



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    Message Edited on 09/05/0305:30PM by britgliderpilot
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  7. #7
    - However, I recall from most of my Int'l Economics
    - courses that Airbus has a well-documented history of
    - being subsidized and protected. That may or may not
    - currently be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised
    - if politics is still mixing with business to ensure
    - Airbus's continued success.

    Yes, I think that's about right . . . all very French [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif[/img]

    I think they got a special dispensation from the French government about the A380. Evacuating levels on time, or something . . . .



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  8. #8
    bigvette's Avatar Senior Member
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    That's a nice file, but that's a total history of Airbus, not their annual sales or deliveray amounts.

    Look at the 737-700 - it's ETOPS and has a 3,700 nautical miles range of up to 149 pax. The 737 has come along way! The 73-900 series can carry up to 189 for about 3,100 nautical miles - that's almost as many as an early model 757! All of the Next Generation 737's offer their carriers a lot of versatility.

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  9. #9
    bigvette's Avatar Senior Member
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    I like the decision by AirTran to go with the 717's, which are claimed to be highly effcient aircraft. The 717 is based on the old DC-9 platform as you all know, and was already there when Airbus came out with the A318 for that market.




    Message Edited on 09/06/0311:23AM by bigvette
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  10. #10
    This question probably does not have an empirical answer, as both manufacturers make planes that are reliable.
    Most partisans of Boeing or Airbus (disclosure: I am a Boeing fan. Just take a look at these babies: https://jetspectre.com/boeing/ ) can find some way to demonstrate superior characteristics of either manufacturer. One aspect of Airbus narrowbodies that irks me to no end is the slat motor. It is loud and, if you aren't used to flying the A320 family, somewhat alarming.
    I appreciate the Airbus aircraft and wish them well, but they are no Boeing.
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