In your mind when you say realistic, what do you mean? | Forums

[cre8nhavoc]

I know everyone has their own opinion on what they feel this series should be when they say “realisticâ€Â�. But in your mind, what do you feel should be made realistic about the next Rainbow Six?

In my opinion, I can care less about the way I inflict damage. If I get shot in the leg, I wouldn’t expect my player to move slower with an obvious limp. I don’t expect my sound so dissipate when I just got into a firefight and unloaded a clip or two. All I need is a more believable and better overall environment and one hell of an excellent presentation.

Let’s think of it like this, when I shoot someone, the body should stay. Most of you think that, “yeah, it’s cool, but why?â€Â� Simple. I like to hunt. And most of the time for me in this series is spent online. When I hear shots, I react. Most of the time, I try to make my way back to the place I heard the shots and see if I can place together where that shot came from. Yes, believe it or not, I observe previous battles on the playing field to get a better feel of what happened. Now some of you are thinking, “okay, but it’s a dead body, what is there to tell you about what happened? You see a dead body, obviously you can tell what happened. There’s more to it than that.

You can tell from blood patterns (on the wall or even on the floor) where the damage was inflicted. You can tell by the way the body lays which way the shot to your incapacitated opponent/team mate came by the lay of the dead body. And believe it or not, made success to me because I could see where the player shot and moved. So what would I change?

I wouldn’t change too much to this other than the overall presentation. I would like to see bullet patterns stay in walls, empty casings on the floor, even if the player who incapacitated the opponent’s body I’m standing over, I’d like to see the wall show blood spray if he took damage. Most of you think that, “it’s just a game, nobody looks for things like that.â€Â� You are absolutely wrong. I do it, I’ve seen people do this type of investigation in after action screens. So it’s most definitely done.

So what does this have to do with realistic? Everything. Knowing how players where shot helps to justify where and how a player went down. I think seeing things like bullet holes, blood patterns, even bullet casings on the floor can help players progress through games like Team Survival a lot faster. There is options there for investigation, you can either make a guess on where your opponent ran, or you can take observations to dead team members and get a better clue of your enemies location.

So what else would I like to see in my version of realistic? Just as I said, a better presentation to my overall environment. Why does the glass have to disappear when shot? Why can’t the glass stay on the floor to manipulate sounds? Maybe I’ve got a player nearby and I can’t pin point their location. Well they just gave it away when they ran over the broken glass on the other side of the room. Footsteps. Why is it that the footsteps stay in the snow, but nowhere else? Well if I could have it my way, rainy maps would have this effect. A player decides to move into dry conditions and clear a building. Maybe he knew I was there by the wet footprints on the carpet, or even on the marble floor. Perhaps he followed my oily footprints in the garage because the shot to the barrel leaked oil to the ground and I stepped in it. Maybe someone shot out the lights. Now I’m forced to use night vision because the lights are shot out or turned off. There are so many possibilities.

All it boils down for to me is a much more immersive and interactive environment. Maybe for most of you this is little to nothing, but for myself and others, this would bring a whole new feel and play to the game. With that said, what is your definition of reality?

[cre8nhavoc]

I know everyone has their own opinion on what they feel this series should be when they say “realisticâ€Â�. But in your mind, what do you feel should be made realistic about the next Rainbow Six?

In my opinion, I can care less about the way I inflict damage. If I get shot in the leg, I wouldn’t expect my player to move slower with an obvious limp. I don’t expect my sound so dissipate when I just got into a firefight and unloaded a clip or two. All I need is a more believable and better overall environment and one hell of an excellent presentation.

Let’s think of it like this, when I shoot someone, the body should stay. Most of you think that, “yeah, it’s cool, but why?â€Â� Simple. I like to hunt. And most of the time for me in this series is spent online. When I hear shots, I react. Most of the time, I try to make my way back to the place I heard the shots and see if I can place together where that shot came from. Yes, believe it or not, I observe previous battles on the playing field to get a better feel of what happened. Now some of you are thinking, “okay, but it’s a dead body, what is there to tell you about what happened? You see a dead body, obviously you can tell what happened. There’s more to it than that.

You can tell from blood patterns (on the wall or even on the floor) where the damage was inflicted. You can tell by the way the body lays which way the shot to your incapacitated opponent/team mate came by the lay of the dead body. And believe it or not, made success to me because I could see where the player shot and moved. So what would I change?

I wouldn’t change too much to this other than the overall presentation. I would like to see bullet patterns stay in walls, empty casings on the floor, even if the player who incapacitated the opponent’s body I’m standing over, I’d like to see the wall show blood spray if he took damage. Most of you think that, “it’s just a game, nobody looks for things like that.â€Â� You are absolutely wrong. I do it, I’ve seen people do this type of investigation in after action screens. So it’s most definitely done.

So what does this have to do with realistic? Everything. Knowing how players where shot helps to justify where and how a player went down. I think seeing things like bullet holes, blood patterns, even bullet casings on the floor can help players progress through games like Team Survival a lot faster. There is options there for investigation, you can either make a guess on where your opponent ran, or you can take observations to dead team members and get a better clue of your enemies location.

So what else would I like to see in my version of realistic? Just as I said, a better presentation to my overall environment. Why does the glass have to disappear when shot? Why can’t the glass stay on the floor to manipulate sounds? Maybe I’ve got a player nearby and I can’t pin point their location. Well they just gave it away when they ran over the broken glass on the other side of the room. Footsteps. Why is it that the footsteps stay in the snow, but nowhere else? Well if I could have it my way, rainy maps would have this effect. A player decides to move into dry conditions and clear a building. Maybe he knew I was there by the wet footprints on the carpet, or even on the marble floor. Perhaps he followed my oily footprints in the garage because the shot to the barrel leaked oil to the ground and I stepped in it. Maybe someone shot out the lights. Now I’m forced to use night vision because the lights are shot out or turned off. There are so many possibilities.

All it boils down for to me is a much more immersive and interactive environment. Maybe for most of you this is little to nothing, but for myself and others, this would bring a whole new feel and play to the game. With that said, what is your definition of reality?

[Yen Lo]

basically whats the difference between the last popular game in the console series, vs. what you guys decided that we needed now,(considering if you feel it didnt do well or not).

[Nomad_381]

I only want reality to a certain point. And that point is the line where it interferes with the creation of a fair competitive field. Competitive balance in my mind is the single most important element when it comes to multiplayer. Thats why I agree with havoc when he says that he doesnt expect to be limping along after being shot in the leg. The reduction in health is enough hamperment to the next engagement alone, adding a limp and other effects (even the cracked mask in LD I didnt like) begins to effect competition. Grenade blast radius would be another example of something I dont want taken past a certain line of reality becasue it detracts from the core skillset of the game-shooting.

That said, I want the game to be as realistic as possible. I want the weapons to have recoil (and the effect the recoil has on aim) as close to reality as possible. I want the firearms to be entirely realistic. If that means they all shoot more or less the same with the same results then so be it. Nothing wrong with weapon choice being based on personal preference rather than stats (I dont want a "paper, rock, scissors" system for the weapons beyond their real world attributes because that turns the confrontations within the game into "paper, rock, scissors"). I want the player to move realistically within the environment. Something that I think would be cool and would add to the realism would be a sprint button (with no meter, these guys are probabably all capable of flat out sprinting a half mile or more without breaking a sweat) from which you could not simply stop or turn on a dime nor strafe period (you would have to release/hit the button again and take the necessary few steps to slow down) and during the sprint your aim is more or less non existant.

Thats all I got for now, post is probably long enough as it is. Will edit/reply again as I think more on the issue.

[NotoriouzWun]

I would like a game to be realistic to a point also. I agree with Havoc. I'm very maticulous when i walk around a map. As many of you who have seen me around awhile back know. I am very much a camper. I know alot of you will still argue takes no skill at all, but it is one of the more TACTICAL skill assest of a player in this game. As a Camper I take note of my surroundinsg where thinsg tend to go down the most pattersn my opponent may follow. Is there certain places they like to go first, second, last? I think some more things like glass stayinga nd causing noise would add tot he depth of the enviroment. This game has definatly lacked in the lights department. Why not have switches like Splinter cell? Or be able to just shoot them out? Engineers could hack a main circuit breaker cutting power to the whole map.

In terms of guns I would liek guns to be realistic to their counterparts. I believe no sniper rifle should take more than two shots ot the chest to fatally wound someone and anything to the head is an instant kill. I believe a shotgun at 2 feet away better damn near kill you if not destroy you.

The biggest I thing I want to see is the return to styles. Waht do I mean? RS3 and BA Allowed you to have a style. No matter if people liked that style or not. If you wanted to Run and Gun you could, if you were a camper you could. If you were cautious and tactical you could be. If you trueley wanna make a game where I can pick up a gamke and have fun, Havoc can pick up a game and have fun, and Joey from apartment 32C can have fun. Then you have to allow for different styles fo gameplaya nd not force everyone into one set thing. Realisticly not everyone goes into battle the same way.

Although I do believe my Rainbow Six: In Space idea is a great one They could be taking otu terrosrists on a space station. Russian terrorists have taken over lol Also if ya bring back turrets for god sakes allow us to place them where we see fit. Having certain spots makes them downright useless.

[Pacemaker701SQ]

Wow, for me this is a hard subject. This being a topic on a console game and all.. it's hard to describe what should be considered "realistic". I am prior military and so are my friends that play these kinds of games. We play for the comradery and for the excitment we miss from being in the military. Would we "run and gun", would we take the time to approach the enemy location and lay "fields" of remotes along the way, etc. Of course we wouldn't.. in reality we would either work as a team and do clearing techniques or do what people call "camping." We would use our skills to get the best advantage points and use a crossfire technique that would mow anything across a large area down.

In these games you have CS gas FX when not suited up. I think an effect similar to that but for a shorter time would be nice for frag grenades like a concusion effect.(ringing sound in ears and muffled sounds). Also items like the WP grnades have too large of a radious and go through walls to burn people outside the room or hall they were thrown.

In the military you are issued weapons by your abilities and by skills. If you were a large dude... you got to hump the m60, because only a strong dude can keep an effective base of fire with it. If you wanted to be a sniper you had to go to school and prove you could shoot 600meters center mass with a strong wind blowing and keep the kentucky windage at a minimum.

I like the idea of LD and the different character types where you have to earn your abilites and learn to work together as a team, but not just in basic usage of the character and points, but in actual training. If you can't pass the training.. you don't get to use that next feature even if it is available now. Each bullet is different for a reason. The way they carry, the impact whether hollowed out or tracer tipped makes a difference in reality. also to the amount of damage teh weapon takes shooting each type of round. If I shoot you point blank with a 9mm you might not even flinch b4 you shoot back, but if I shoot you point blank with a .45 your going to know it. some bullets tumble in reality and some don't. Some will hit you and the dude behind you crerating a "double kill" option. Some would not even enter a "commandoes type" armor from a certain distance in reality. Meaning no dammage at all unless up close and personal and a headshot.

I have heard that the knife feature of spec is difficult and sometimes doesn't even do anything unless right ontop of an enemy. I think all character types should have a knife feature and damage depending on distance, " a swipe", or a close "jabbing insertion", or from behind grab head "cutting throat" effect should all have different damage ratings.

I could go on and on with lot's of concepts accumulated from lots of game types, but I will submit this for now.

For the most part I would like people to understand...change is good. Stop telling the designers to make the game just like the old ones and tell them what you would like incorperated into the game you want to play. With the understanding that THEY make the game not YOU! If you want to make a game.. go to the bank.. get a loan... hire some coders and make a game. In the military the saying is "no excuses" and certainly "no whiners". If you were in my company when I was in... I would have given most of you the BIGGEST "GI Party" in history.

[cre8nhavoc]

Great reply Pacemaker.

[Death_Shaman]

I have to agree with havoc on this one. When I hear gunfire, I try to work my way back toward it. This increases the likelihood that you will find an opponent with you being in a position ready to engage instead of randomly running around the map hoping to meat someone head on but chancing them coming up behind you.

So how is this useful? There can be a wealth of information if you can make it to a combat location before the information is lost. First of all you can get an idea about what direction the surviving gamer was when he eliminated the other player. Based on the map design this will give you an idea of whether it was a long range or close quarter’s battle. Long range and you may need to look for a sniper that is waiting for you to take your next step. Short range and the other player might be around the next corner looking for their next target.

As I move throughout the map, I am constantly analyzing everything I see. The information I gather when coming upon a battle location makes the difference of whether I double back, continue on, or try to flank where I think they are at and where they are going.

It is only fair that in a game an eliminated player not be able to communicate with their teammates. In the absence of this you can gain as much or more information by knowing what to look for. Your teammate may not know where he was shot from, but the position of the body, bullet patterns, and splatter don't lie.