Academy and Sanctuary: too much real-life? | Forums

[Nightmus]

I'm really concerned about the design of H6. I very much liked how H5 looked (Sylvan has the best design in all HoMM series imo), except for Academy stylistics. While the programmers were innovative, especially with awesome Rakshasas, the overall arabian looks were kind of disheartening. I don't mind bringing some national twists here and there, but the Academy was simply too much! And now there's the water faction, which is Japanese to the bone!

My opinion is that the factions should never be designed as a full copy of real world nationality or it's stereotype. Don't you think it would be stupid to have a Heroes game with Arabian Wizards as in H5, Japanese naga/water people with katanas and kimonos, Russian Elves with bears, Balalaykas and earflapped fur hats, African Orcs, WW2 German Necromancers and classic duo of Haven and Inferno. It'd be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

What I want to say is that the national references should be more subtle. Kirin is obviously an orient-type dragon, okay. Add in nagas, everything water-associated, okay. Add a black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit, oka-aaay.. But then there's samurai armor, national dresses, katanas, flags on the backs of warriors - oh my God!

I guess for H6 vanilla it's more or less set in stone, but I hope that the developers won't make another town with such a concept in future expansions.

PS What's your opinion on this subject, fellow forum readers? Am I exaggerating too much or has it been really taken too far?

[Nightmus]

I'm really concerned about the design of H6. I very much liked how H5 looked (Sylvan has the best design in all HoMM series imo), except for Academy stylistics. While the programmers were innovative, especially with awesome Rakshasas, the overall arabian looks were kind of disheartening. I don't mind bringing some national twists here and there, but the Academy was simply too much! And now there's the water faction, which is Japanese to the bone!

My opinion is that the factions should never be designed as a full copy of real world nationality or it's stereotype. Don't you think it would be stupid to have a Heroes game with Arabian Wizards as in H5, Japanese naga/water people with katanas and kimonos, Russian Elves with bears, Balalaykas and earflapped fur hats, African Orcs, WW2 German Necromancers and classic duo of Haven and Inferno. It'd be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

What I want to say is that the national references should be more subtle. Kirin is obviously an orient-type dragon, okay. Add in nagas, everything water-associated, okay. Add a black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit, oka-aaay.. But then there's samurai armor, national dresses, katanas, flags on the backs of warriors - oh my God!

I guess for H6 vanilla it's more or less set in stone, but I hope that the developers won't make another town with such a concept in future expansions.

PS What's your opinion on this subject, fellow forum readers? Am I exaggerating too much or has it been really taken too far?

[SandroTheMaster]

Well, first, if you're going to post this kind of poll here: POST A LINK TO THE SUBJECT.

I had to look quite hard to find the leak. Allas, here it is:

http://heroescommunity.com/vie...=24719&pagenumber=12

Secondly, I like the Arabian wizards. The Arabian mythology is very closely related to wizards and I think it matches very well. Plus it didn't get too overtly Arab, it had some Egyptian and Hindu themes as well.

Thirdly, I didn't really made my mind on the Nagas as I didn't see them in action. I'll say, though, that I have a natural bias against japanese inspired themes and in particular the Katana and Samurai craze. (Samurais were just cultural warriors like many others, not demigods, get over it whoever drools over a katana).

On the other hand it is refreshing to see creatures so unfamiliar. They are certainly Japanese, yes, but their design is interesting and only one creature (thankfully) is Samurai looking.

As long as the faction isn't overtly Japanese in philosophy (like the Wizards weren't much Arab-minded at all), I won't mind. I can't stand the over-aching themes of EVERY Japanese manga/anime/film/fable ever.

Also, the Orcs are MESO-AMERICAN, not African in the least. And it is good to finally give them an actual cultural identity. I liked them, but would rather they'd gone deeper and put a coautl in the middle there.

And the Necromancers have always had actually a Gothic theme. It only SEEMS like a Nazi theme because the Nazis themselves had a strong Gothic theme.

[kodial79]

Voted for 'I wish all towns were like these two'

You may have not noticed though but there were real life culture inspirations for the other H5 factions too. Fortress Dwarves played on a Scottish theme, Sylvan Elves on a Native American one and Orcs had Mongolian vibes to them.

I really like it when they draw inspirations from such cultures to come up with the background of the factions. Even better if the creatures added to it then, more or less fit in with all of that.

Anyway, though not subtle either, I don't think they're heavy either. As they are, they're just fine.

By the way, the "black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit" is actually the classic appearance of the Yuki-no-Onna. She wasn't Ring-inspired, they always looked like that.

[Oakwarrior]

The Haven town is inspired by real-life medieval theocracies. How more real life can you get with this (besides the obvious supernatural entities)? Nobody is giving Ubisoft a hard time because of that, are they?

Adding something familiar to a faction is good. People can relate to it.
(Orcs ftw).

I mean, I'm all for originality but sometimes you need to have something you can point out as "I've seen this before" to make it more intriguing.

Something completely alien would be cool too, though.

[GoranXII]

Voted for 'don't care' because I don't see any fault with cherry-picking real-world cultures, just provided the faction itself has a coherent culture.

[Nightmus]

SandroTheMaster, thanks for the link, I should have put it in the initial post myself. Will do now. Actually I won't, because, as it turned out, that'll wipe the poll results. So double thanks for your link in 1st reply!

There are 2 units that have samurai vibe to them - Wave/Tide Warrior as actual samurai and Shark Warrior/Captain with their samurai-inspired armor.

I didn't mean to imply that Orcs ARE based on African culture, nor Necropolis is Nazi-inspired. I just used used the references, which COULD have been used, that look more or less plausible, but ridiculous at the sama time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You may have not noticed though but there were real life culture inspirations for the other H5 factions too. &lt;...&gt; </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I surely noticed that, but in my eyes these references are not that heavy. Maybe that's because Scottish and Native American themes aren't that hyped as the two I mentioned. Academy is just your average Aladdin and 1001 nights arabian theme and with the new Sanctuary faction it's Japanese samurai films and anime all over the place! To my mind the only thing that's worse is adding something modern to the game, like guns or rap music.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Haven town is inspired by real-life medieval theocracies. How more real life can you get with this (besides the obvious supernatural entities)? Nobody is giving Ubisoft a hard time because of that, are they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's right. But there's hardly any fantasy themed RPG/TBS game, that doesn't have them. It's a staple and I actually have no complaints about it. Haven and Inferno are obviously based on Heaven and Hell composition of the world from the Bible. Haven is a town with the faithful people protected by the God, while Inderno pours all kinds of demons through portals from hell to invade and conquer. The conception is fine by me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> By the way, the "black-haired, drowned-looking, the Ring-inspired unit" is actually the classic appearance of the Yuki-no-Onna. She wasn't Ring-inspired, they always looked like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've no idea who that is, so I judge as an average person who isn't familiar with Japanese deities (or whatever). To me she looks like the Ring antagonist + Rinoa Heartilly from Final Fantasy 8. Both from Japan.

[Oakwarrior]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wave/Tide Warrior as actual samurai and Shark Warrior/Captain with their samurai-inspired armor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, every soldier in a medieval Japanese army had that kind of armor like the boys in the doodles Sandro linked. Just like every soldier in a medieval European army had plate/chain/whatever armor.

I'd say you just dislike Japanese references a wee bit too much
I for one found the Rampart architecture in H3 refreshing.

[Nightmus]

I think we have enough real-world based conflicts in games like Call of Duty. To me HoMM is a fantasy world. I've read somewhere long time ago that human brain can't develop something completely new, it always constructs images and ideas from those that are already familiar to it. Thus, the fantasy factions are always somewhat based on real world or widely known fantasy univeerses. That's fine. Moreover, the proper references make the game's world more believable. For instance, if Vikings were portrayed as Gandalf-style magicians, it would turn away some people from the game. But, on the other hand, to fully base a town on a particular real-life nation is something I'd frown upon. The Haven people and Sylvan elves are the result of many different infusions into the original idea of medieval europeans and whoever the Elves are based on (Celts? Native Americans?). The Sanctuary however screams Japanese.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'd say you just dislike Japanese references a wee bit too much </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That may be. I've been pushed towards watching and liking anime numerous times and grew to generally hate it. But then again, I disliked Academy (though I played them more than any other town) in the first place.

[ninjamanhammer]

LotR which is the father to most fantasy is highly based around reallife.

I like the Araby academy and Inka orcss but am not very fond of the samurai nagas however.